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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients based on Netscape 5?</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients based on Netscape 5?</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Caliban Tiresias Darklock <<A HREF="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:10:17 -0500</LI>
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<PRE>
Chris Gray wrote:
> [Greg Munt:]
>
> :> Netscape has announced that Communicator Standard Edition 5.0 source code
> :> will be freely available for modification and redistribution.
>
> :If this happens, could we see mud clients based on NS5? Or am I wandering
> :in the dark, as usual?
As any D&D player can tell you, wandering in the dark can be very enlightening.
;)
> First off, I think the Netscape sources are going to be a bit hard to
> handle for the average hacker - they are going to be huge. So, most hackers
> will not do anything really useful with them. In order to base a MUD on
> Netscape, (other than as Java or JavaScript stuff), you would have to
> greatly extend either HTML or HTTP (or both!). Some changes could get
> incorporated into the "standards", but I doubt that a whole mess of things
> would be added just because some hacker wanted them for a MUD.
I disagree. An HTTP connection is, at its heart, a telnet connection -- a telnet
connection which abides by certain communication standards, much as any BBS
transaction was at its heart a simple modem connect over which the systems
communicated. Front-end mailers, netmail, FIDO technology, all of these were
simply limited command sets on which the industry standardised; HTTP is no
different. If Netscape is properly designed, then the HTTP connection object's
parent would be a raw telnet connect without option negotiation, which is easily
extended and turned into a proper telnet client through a simple implementation
of DO/DON'T/WILL/WON'T handling.
> I'm old fashioned enough to wonder what useful things *could* be added to
> something that is already overbloated with features!
This is what's at the bottom of software bloat. Rather than wondering what you
could do with what's already there, here people are saying 'what can we add?' --
a symptom of pathological creeping featurism. There are a lot of things in HTTP,
JavaScript, etc. that could be taken *out* to result in something useful. Think
subtractive. Just like when you're doing the final mix of a musical composition
-- if your low end isn't punchy enough, try turning the higher frequencies DOWN
instead of just boosting the bass.
Here's my immediate take on it. You could throw out the entire MUD programming
language as it stands, and replace it with JavaScript. The MUSH server itself
could run a modified concept of the document-object model already supported by
Netscape. Client and server side scripting could both use JavaScript, a clone of
the Microsoft Active Server Page standards could be hacked into the server, and
the rendering code could be maintained in order to allow text effects and
multimedia. Rooms could contain multimedia content such as background sounds and
music, by extending the server to handle HTTP using the same code already in
Netscape. Java applets could be used to generate dynamic maps based on the
current state of the database. When you think about it, you can probably use the
NSAPI to make a MUD server that plugs into an existing web server -- which could
lessen the memory and processor load of a MUD considerably, and make it largely
platform-independent.
This is all off the top of my head, of course, and while a lot of people might
wonder what the hell I'm thinking by saying that we could actually use
JavaScript as a MUD scripting language, I might point out that MUSHclient 2.0
(my client of choice) has used JavaScript as the client scripting language for a
very long time indeed... and believe me, it has serious potential. I've got a
few scripts that would make most owners of other clients shit little green
apples. It's just plain not possible in most clients to run scripts that access
multiple windows simultaneously... ;)
> it could simply mark the
> death of Netscape as a company (with the original sources out there, the
> browser itself should survive for a long time).
Netscape has always realised its greatest revenue from sales of its server, so I
don't think it's going to suffer overly. Reports are showing that their revenue
from client sales are pretty minimal at present, as well... so I don't think
this is going to hurt them much. What it WILL do, however, is get millions of
people to say 'Netscape is cool' and talk about them more.
Incidentally, this is perfect timing. My Netscape client software subscription
certificate was about to expire. ;)
--
=+[caliban#darklock,com]=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=[<A HREF="http://www.darklock.com/]+=">http://www.darklock.com/]+=</A>
"It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to plan, more
doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage than the creation of a
new system. For the initiator has the enmity of all who would profit by
the preservation of the old institution, and merely lukewarm defenders in
those who would gain by the new one." -- Machiavelli
=+=+=+[We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams]+=+=+=+=
</PRE>
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<li><strong><A NAME="00442" HREF="msg00442.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients based on Netscape 5?</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> coder#ibm,net</li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00308" HREF="msg00308.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients based on Netscape 5?</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Vadim Tkachenko <vadimt#4cs,com></li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00302" HREF="msg00302.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients based on Netscape 5?</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA (Chris Gray)</LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients based on Netscape 5?</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00319" HREF="msg00319.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients based on Netscape 5?</A></strong>,
Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vadimt#4cs,com">vadimt#4cs,com</a>, Mon 26 Jan 1998, 04:17 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00327" HREF="msg00327.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients based on Netscape 5?</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Tue 27 Jan 1998, 07:05 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00302" HREF="msg00302.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients based on Netscape 5?</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Sat 24 Jan 1998, 18:19 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00303" HREF="msg00303.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients based on Netscape 5?</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Sat 24 Jan 1998, 19:24 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00305" HREF="msg00305.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients based on Netscape 5?</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sat 24 Jan 1998, 20:11 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00308" HREF="msg00308.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients based on Netscape 5?</A></strong>,
Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vadimt#4cs,com">vadimt#4cs,com</a>, Sun 25 Jan 1998, 06:14 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00310" HREF="msg00310.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients based on Netscape 5?</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sun 25 Jan 1998, 07:36 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00311" HREF="msg00311.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients based on Netscape 5?</A></strong>,
Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vadimt#4cs,com">vadimt#4cs,com</a>, Sun 25 Jan 1998, 18:28 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00442" HREF="msg00442.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients based on Netscape 5?</A></strong>,
coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Thu 12 Feb 1998, 22:07 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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