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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks)</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) </LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: J C Lawrence <<A HREF="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:21:56 -0800</LI>
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<PRE>
On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 01:41:56 PST8PDT
Chris Gray<cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA> wrote:
> [Chris L:]
>> The key feature of TCP which I'd remove would be the
>> error correction. Given a predictive client its both unecessary and
>> counter-productive.
> Only to a certain extent. Sure, you can probably cruise over a bit
> of lost data in graphics or audio output. Missing some text from the
> middle of a paragraph could be a bit shocking to the average user,
> however.
True, but how about a client which gradually paints the text as it is
received ala interlaced GIFs, and thus went thru the following display
sequence:
--<cut>--
<***> brief gasp as you enter this place, your surprised gulp
accompanied by an exciting tingle that thrills your spine in an
electric <***>oom. The fresco on closer inspection details all that
is Parrius; <***>othy surf, within which <***>n some kind of
effortless metamorphosis, rising up to show the city itself,
encircled by white walls <***>iant virgin white seagull. To look any
more on this munificent architectural creation would surely create a
<***>all.
--<cut>--
which mutates a second later into:
--<cut>--
Central chamber of collegiate learning.
About you all is bathed in light. You allow yourself a brief gasp as
you enter this place, your surprised gulp accompanied by an exciting
tingle that thrills your spine in an electric <***>oom. The fresco
on closer inspection details all that is Parrius; <***>othy surf,
within which <***>n some kind of effortless metamorphosis, rising up
to show the city itself, encircled by white walls <***>iant virgin
white seagull. To look any more on this munificent architectural
creation would surely create a giddiness the likes of which no human
could withstand, and so you reluctantly close your eyes a while so
that you may absorb the aesthetic energy of it all.
--<cut>--
Which in turn turns into:
--<cut>--
Central chamber of collegiate learning.
About you all is bathed in light. You allow yourself a brief gasp as
you enter this place, your surprised gulp accompanied by an exciting
tingle that thrills your spine in an electric manner. Here all is
flooded in a spectacular light, as clear as the light of day itself,
highlighting a continuous fresco imprinted on to the circular wall of
the room. The fresco on closer inspection details all that is Parrius;
<***>othy surf, within which <***>n some kind of effortless
metamorphosis, rising up to show the city itself, encircled by white
walls <***>iant virgin white seagull. To look any more on this
munificent architectural creation would surely create a giddiness the
likes of which no human could withstand, and so you reluctantly close
your eyes a while so that you may absorb the aesthetic energy of it
all.
--<cut>--
And then finally as the last packets come in::
--<cut>--
Central chamber of collegiate learning.
About you all is bathed in light. You allow yourself a brief gasp as
you enter this place, your surprised gulp accompanied by an exciting
tingle that thrills your spine in an electric manner. Here all is
flooded in a spectacular light, as clear as the light of day itself,
highlighting a continuous fresco imprinted on to the circular wall
of the room. The fresco on closer inspection details all that is
Parrius; a continuous rolling wave headed by a frothy surf, within
which swim magnificent battleships that bear the Augustine emblem
with proud fortitude. And the waves then become land in some kind of
effortless metamorphosis, rising up to show the city itself,
encircled by white walls that encircle the city as if they were the
wings of some giant virgin white seagull. To look any more on this
munificent architectural creation would surely create a giddiness
the likes of which no human could withstand, and so you reluctantly
close your eyes a while so that you may absorb the aesthetic energy
of it all.
--<cut>--
The text BTW is taken from the welcome room at Avalon.
I'd note that the above gets very interesting if you also interpolate
the updates for the speech that was going on at the time. Consider
the effect of dropped packets in the following full text:
--<cut>--
Central chamber of collegiate learning.
About you all is bathed in light. You allow yourself a brief gasp as
you enter this place, your surprised gulp accompanied by an exciting
tingle that thrills your spine in an electric manner. Here all is
flooded in a spectacular light, as clear as the light of day itself,
highlighting a continuous fresco imprinted on to the circular wall
of the room. The fresco on closer inspection details all that is
Parrius; a continuous rolling wave headed by a frothy surf, within
which swim magnificent battleships that bear the Augustine emblem
with proud fortitude. And the waves then become land in some kind of
effortless metamorphosis, rising up to show the city itself,
encircled by white walls that encircle the city as if they were the
wings of some giant virgin white seagull. To look any more on this
munificent architectural creation would surely create a giddiness
the likes of which no human could withstand, and so you reluctantly
close your eyes a while so that you may absorb the aesthetic energy
of it all.
-
A mighty voice booms, "You are offending me with your foul
language. huggie scum".
-
A deep voice shouts, "I fight plenty alone... I fight at my choice".
-
Somebody shouts, "Sopare us, ok?".
-
A deep voice shouts, "Cmon fuckwit fight".
-
A tall fellow strides into view. He shakes you by the hand.
-
--<cut>--
> Also, the channel back from the client to the server should
> not lose any of the user's input. What you want is the ability to be
> sure that if a message arrives, then it is the complete message that
> was sent, not some fragment of one. You will also want to do your
> own checks on any header of the message, since UDP doesn't even
> guarantee correctness. (It typically is correct over ethernet,
> because of the way ethernet works, but it isn't over SLIP, for
> example, which is one reason why you shouldn't run NFS over a SLIP
> link.)
True. Both directions need TCP-like error correction. However the
downside has no/little need (post protocol state machines may say
otherwise) to delay delivery of any individual packet. Essentially
this involves devolving the upside protocol to require consistent
transactions, not a correct stream.
> If the system gets a bit smarter, with some caching in the client,
> then some sort of reliable protocol will be needed, both ways, to
> co-ordinate that cache.
Nahh. You can make the entire cache protocol advisory. ie each end
broadcasts publisher/listener style (well, sorta) what he
has/needs/wants, with the other end picking up on them as they wish,
and the requestor repeating until satisfied as needed (see earlier
discussion of well evolved object heirarchies with the graphical
presentation of objects gradually refining as the more exact (lower on
the object heirarchy) representations were received).
--
J C Lawrence Internet: claw#null,net
(Contractor) Internet: coder#ibm,net
---------(*) Internet: claw#under,engr.sgi.com
...Honourary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...
</PRE>
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<UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>:
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00576" HREF="msg00576.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks)</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA (Chris Gray)</LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00576" HREF="msg00576.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks)</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Tue 24 Feb 1998, 09:35 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00579" HREF="msg00579.html">Net protocols for MUDing</A></strong>,
s001gmu <a href="mailto:s001gmu#nova,wright.edu">s001gmu#nova,wright.edu</a>, Tue 24 Feb 1998, 14:56 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00581" HREF="msg00581.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks)</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Tue 24 Feb 1998, 18:54 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00767" HREF="msg00767.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks)</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Thu 19 Mar 1998, 20:36 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00766" HREF="msg00766.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks)</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Thu 19 Mar 1998, 20:22 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
<UL>
<li><Possible follow-up(s)><br>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00645" HREF="msg00645.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks)</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Sat 28 Feb 1998, 18:04 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00650" HREF="msg00650.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks)</A></strong>,
Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vadimt#4cs,com">vadimt#4cs,com</a>, Sat 28 Feb 1998, 22:40 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00577" HREF="msg00577.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] BOOK: Myer's Silverlock</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Tue 24 Feb 1998, 09:30 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00567" HREF="msg00567.html">BOOK: Myer's Silverlock</A></strong>,
coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Mon 23 Feb 1998, 19:43 GMT
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
</ul>
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