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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Michael Hohensee <<A HREF="mailto:michael#mainstream,net">michael#mainstream,net</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:17:41 -0500</LI>
<LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:michael#corinth,mainstream.net">michael#corinth,mainstream.net</A></LI>
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<PRE>
Miroslav Silovic wrote:
>
> Michael Hohensee <michael#sparta,mainstream.net> writes:
>
> > Of course, the POVRAY renderer does take time to work, and wouldn't be
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> This is gross understatement. :) While 2-3 seconds are quite
> acceptable for a game, 1-60 minutes are not.
>
Heh, only if you want the highest quality in your image. I'm talking
about images which take 4-10 seconds to display. Every .pov file that I
ever saw could be traced in under 10 seconds if you wanted a little
80x80 (or thereabouts) image.
> > suitable for real-time graphics unless there is a way to have it
> > lower the quality of the rendering to a point where it took a
> > fraction of a second to finish. If we're not desperate for
> > real-time images, however, this seems to be the logical solution.
>
> POVray is slow for the following reasons:
>
> 1) bad acceleration algorithm. They can only use bounding boxes
> but not octree or bsp tree. Unfortuantely this is also hard
> to fix because POV uses unbounded primitives, and you can't
> take those away because POV's CSGs won't work with patches
> (not to mention backward compatibility)
>
> 2) POV is a raytracer. It's very hard to speed up raytracing
> past certain point - that's why games use zbuffering instead.
> Note that the only places where you /need/ raytracing are
> reflective/refractive surfaces (and even there, you could
> cheat by using environment maps).
>
> <ShamelessPlug>
> Feel free to take the code from my renderer for both zbuffering and
> /really/ accelerated raytracing. Gah, now I need to speed up the
> bloody thing for scenes with fewer than 1,000 polygons (as raytracing
> becomes the low overhead operation in the low-complexity case, when
> procedural textures and image pre/postprocessing take over... 320x240
> low-quality previews take 2-3 seconds with 10 objects, 10-20 with
> 1000, using raytracing, and with zbuffering everything gets faster. I
> solved problems with quality loss with zbuffering and as a result, you
> get exactly the same image).
>
> (renderer: <A HREF="http://petra.zesoi.fer.hr/~silovic/sart">http://petra.zesoi.fer.hr/~silovic/sart</A>, and I announced it
> recently on Freshmeet site)
> </ShamelessPlug>
Heh, ok, I'll look it over. :)
--
Michael Hohensee michael#mainstream,net
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/9025/">http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/9025/</A>
Finger me for my PGP Public Key, or use:
<A HREF="http://sparta.mainstream.net/michael/pgpkey.txt">http://sparta.mainstream.net/michael/pgpkey.txt</A>
</PRE>
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<UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>:
<UL>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00771" HREF="msg00771.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> J C Lawrence <claw#under,engr.sgi.com></LI></UL></LI>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00773" HREF="msg00773.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Michael Hohensee <michael#sparta,mainstream.net></LI></UL></LI>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00781" HREF="msg00781.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Miroslav Silovic <silovic#zesoi,fer.hr></LI></UL></LI>
</UL></LI></UL>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00773" HREF="msg00773.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</A></strong>,
Michael Hohensee <a href="mailto:michael#sparta,mainstream.net">michael#sparta,mainstream.net</a>, Thu 19 Mar 1998, 23:42 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00781" HREF="msg00781.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</A></strong>,
Miroslav Silovic <a href="mailto:silovic#zesoi,fer.hr">silovic#zesoi,fer.hr</a>, Fri 20 Mar 1998, 09:01 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00786" HREF="msg00786.html">3D engines for MUDs</A></strong>,
Niklas Elmqvist <a href="mailto:d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se">d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se</a>, Fri 20 Mar 1998, 11:30 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00788" HREF="msg00788.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</A></strong>,
Michael Hohensee <a href="mailto:michael#mainstream,net">michael#mainstream,net</a>, Fri 20 Mar 1998, 13:26 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00796" HREF="msg00796.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</A></strong>,
Michael Hohensee <a href="mailto:michael#mainstream,net">michael#mainstream,net</a>, Fri 20 Mar 1998, 21:15 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00798" HREF="msg00798.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</A></strong>,
Michael Hohensee <a href="mailto:michael#sparta,mainstream.net">michael#sparta,mainstream.net</a>, Fri 20 Mar 1998, 21:47 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00553" HREF="msg00553.html">Position sorting</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user1,inficad.com">nightfall#user1,inficad.com</a>, Sun 22 Feb 1998, 13:17 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00643" HREF="msg00643.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Position sorting</A></strong>,
coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Sat 28 Feb 1998, 05:04 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00548" HREF="msg00548.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] byte-code anyone?</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Sat 21 Feb 1998, 07:01 GMT
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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