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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items (was: Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online)</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items (was: Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online) </LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: JC Lawrence <<A HREF="mailto:claw#under,Eng.Sun.COM">claw#under,Eng.Sun.COM</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:01:15 -0800</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-to</em>: <A HREF="mailto:claw#null,net">claw#null,net</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:26:09 PST8PDT
Vadim Tkachenko<vadimt#4cs,com> wrote:
Ooo! An old mail from me:
> On August 6 97, clawrenc#cup,hp.com wrote:
>> I think the baser problem is that there really is only one way in
>> to Mahn-Tor's keep. Why can't the walls be scaled? Or mined? Or
>> a player catapulted over the walls? Or magical teleport? Or a
>> fish charmed to go eat the key and then be caught by the player and
>> the key retrieved? Or the key magically summoned? You get the
>> idea.
> I've been playing with a different idea - make unique/restricted
> items change their properties - an example:
> - There's a door, you really need to open it to get some big reward.
> - There's the key, and the only one. - You accidently found it, or
> killed somebody who had it in possession, [optional] you found the
> door. - (to simplify) the further you from the given door, the
> heavier the key becomes, so you either are forced to go in a right
> direction (btw, not nessessarily, thus it becomes more compelling to
> solve the quest of finding the right door), or drop the damned
> no-good thing.
> 'course, there are exceptions like above - one-way actions like
> dropping into ocean, which should be resolved separately.
I have come to a seperate conclusion as suggested by Carter, or was it
one of our many Brandons (Cline?). Essentially it devolves into:
There are two types of objects in the world:
a) objects which have an uncertain state
b) objects which have a certain state.
This may seem sort of obvious, but the results can be intrigueing.
Consider:
There is a key which can be used to get into Castle Krak. It is the
__only__ key which can do that, and that is the __only__ way to get
into castle Krak.
Bubba drops the key into the ocean.
The key now enters an "indeterminate" state.
The result is that every other key in the land which is also in an
indeterminate state and is not possessed by a player now has a finite,
but definite, chance of proving to be the key to Castle Krak.
The trick is that objects only become determinate when they are asked
to. To take the case of keys, all keys start with an indeterminate
state. If a key is used to try and enter Castle Krak, and if no other
key has currently been determined to be the key to CK, then a
probability is weighed, and if won, the current key becomes the key to
CK. If that probability is lost, nothing changes -- the key is still
indeterminate.
There are problems.
Boffo picks up a key.
Bubba drops a different key. which is the key to the CK, in the
ocean.
Boffo attempt to open the CK with his key -- it works!
The problem become apparent when you make Boffo and Bubba the same
person. Bubba just dropped the key to the CK in the ocean, which is a
unique object, yet another key he already has is also a key to the CK?
One possible address is putting a delay on when newly
indetermiante-states can be realised. Sure, Bubba drops the key in
the ocean, but its going to be a month (say) before any key can be a
key to the CK. Note that this doesn't solve the problem, it just
hides some of its cases (same scenario as above can still occur).
A more subtle address makes all objects which are possessed or
possessed recently as "determinate". The indeterminancy then enters
in the creation of new objects.
Bubba drops the key in the ocean.
Later Boffo catches a fish. If he guts the fish there is a small
but definite chance that a key will be created for him to find, and
that that key will be the key to the CK.
Ditto for Bernie walking the beach and stumbling over just such
another ad hoc created key in the sands.
Me? I don't like the concept of unique objects. I'm going for the
determinate/indeterminate state approach where everything not
determined is indeterminate. I'll accept the problem as unlikely to
be noticed, and if noticed unlikely of being a big problem.
--
J C Lawrence Internet: claw#null,net
Internet: coder#ibm,net
----------(*) Internet: jc.lawrence#sun,com
...Honourary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...
</PRE>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00154" HREF="msg00154.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items (was: Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online)</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Vadim Tkachenko <vadimt#4cs,com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00173" HREF="msg00173.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Sat 10 Jan 1998, 06:40 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00213" HREF="msg00213.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items</A></strong>,
Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vadimt#4cs,com">vadimt#4cs,com</a>, Mon 12 Jan 1998, 17:42 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00226" HREF="msg00226.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Tue 13 Jan 1998, 05:33 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00200" HREF="msg00200.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items</A></strong>,
JC Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,Eng.Sun.COM">claw#under,Eng.Sun.COM</a>, Sun 11 Jan 1998, 21:31 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00197" HREF="msg00197.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items (was: Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online)</A></strong>,
JC Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,Eng.Sun.COM">claw#under,Eng.Sun.COM</a>, Sun 11 Jan 1998, 21:01 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00338" HREF="msg00338.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items (was: Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online)</A></strong>,
Brandon J. Rickman <a href="mailto:ashes#pc4,zennet.com">ashes#pc4,zennet.com</a>, Thu 29 Jan 1998, 00:54 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00343" HREF="msg00343.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items (was: Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online)</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user2,inficad.com">nightfall#user2,inficad.com</a>, Fri 30 Jan 1998, 07:37 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00377" HREF="msg00377.html">Monthly FAQ posting</A></strong>,
Ling <a href="mailto:K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk">K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk</a>, Tue 03 Feb 1998, 18:10 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00467" HREF="msg00467.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items (was: Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online)</A></strong>,
coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Sun 15 Feb 1998, 10:24 GMT
</LI>
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