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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items (was: Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online)</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items (was: Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online)</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Nathan F Yospe <<A HREF="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 13:51:51 -1000</LI>
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<PRE>
On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Chris Gray wrote:
:[Chris L:]
:: I've coined the terms, "Self-realising object", and "self-ignorant
::object", to specify the difference between objects which can be
::dynamically torn down and rebuilt without impact, and those that can't.
:Hmm. Those are going to be tough for me to keep straight!
The terms I have been using for the objects are... well, first let me state
the difference between an instantiated, extended noninstantiated, and basic
noninstantiated object. An instantiated object is one that exists in memory
at a given point in time, is referenced by an active event layer, and which
has not been marked for immediate destantiation. A noninstantiated extended
objects are referenced with a tag to a disk based database entry, and those
objects with no modifiers are purely based on a standard template. Both are
referenced by a parent event layer, but have not been instantiated. This is
probably similar to what JC is describing above when he talks about tearing
down and rebuilding objects without impact. In any case, I have been making
a distiction around "conscious", "semiconscious" and "unconscious" objects,
as I call them, loosely based on the area of quantum mechanics made popular
by Schroedinger: state resolution. I happen to like the straightforward, if
less specific than they could be, terms I use. I'm not sure I want to adopt
"self-realizing object" and "self-ignorant object". I'm not even sure which
is which, as either way could apply, depending on whether you considered it
from a software engineering perspective or from a philosphical perspective.
::Players obviously come into the self-realising camp. However player
::controlled robots, avatars, remote cameras, etc etc etc are also
::implicitly self-realising as they pick it up by contagion from their
::controlling players.
:Yep. Hopefully players won't do that too much, however, else the load
:could go through the roof! Perhaps the requirements for doing that sort
:of thing could be expensive in the world.
This is where semiconscious objects enter the picture. They do have memory,
and as actions impinge upon them, they behave as conscious objects, but, in
the cases where they are not realtime linked to their owners, they are more
or less unconscious. The question then is, what does a camera record? Say a
player leaves the camera running, then goes off for several hours? This can
be easily handled. The camera is just a more complex update requirement and
forces all local updates to its level of awareness. It behaves like a fully
conscious object, except that the update gets done very suddenly. I'm a bit
leery of this, however. Imagine a camera left sitting for twenty hours with
a huge memory bank. The camera's owner relays a dump command to it, and the
camera begins updating to present twenty hours of downtime. Normally I take
a bunch of state equations, throw some interdependancies into a correlation
matrix, randomize a little... (OK, so I'm getting a little silly here. I've
been looking hard at the set of algorithms I use, as I was about to let one
of the other people on the list look at them, and I'm starting to think I'm
not going to let these out... this is a hard one for me, as I like to think
I'm a free software kind of guy, but some of the stuff I do represents some
hundreds of hours of thought and mathematics and blackboard scribbles, both
learning the physics and math that I ended up using, and finding methods to
apply it to software efficiently. What I actually do IS based on evaluating
massive numbers of dependancies over a correlative method, but there is far
more science to it than "randomize a little"...) and get over twenty or two
thousand hours with little fuss. Throw in the camera, and the time from one
active state to the next _matters_. I'm tempted to just leave the world on,
until the camera is removed, or I get sick of it and engineer some accident
for it. I don't mind if most people leaving cameras running come back, look
where they left the camera, and find a bunch of scrap. Mind you, this would
not be automated, just a result of admins getting a list of semiconcious as
well as concious objects when they do a status -users | formatlist. (I know
it looks familar. Can't help it, I HAD to make administration unixlike!) If
admins happen to like animating large reptiles in the vicinity of a camera,
that's not a problem. The thing is, a lot of this only works because I have
no internal programming language, and what a builder can create is limited,
in part, by motivator capabilities of components. True, cameras can be made
by inheriting certain attributes, but an arbitrary unregistered camera type
is not possible. Anything with memory has to inherit from _memory, anything
with a communication flow has to inherit both server and client. There will
be things I forget, and I will have to add them later, in C++... but that's
a trade off for the security of my model. I'd hate to deal with the problem
of instantiated objects with the added complications of user programming.
--
Nathan F. Yospe - Aimed High, Crashed Hard, In the Hanger, Back Flying Soon
Jr Software Engineer, Textron Systems Division (On loan to Rocketdyne Tech)
(Temporarily on Hold) Student, University of Hawaii at Manoa, Physics Dept.
yospe#hawaii.edu nyospe#premier.mhpcc.af.mil <A HREF="http://www2.hawaii.edu/~yospe/">http://www2.hawaii.edu/~yospe/</A>
</PRE>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00677" HREF="msg00677.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items (was: Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online)</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA (Chris Gray)</LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items (was: Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online)</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00531" HREF="msg00531.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items (was: Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online)</A></strong>,
coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Thu 19 Feb 1998, 05:58 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00547" HREF="msg00547.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items (was: Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online)</A></strong>,
Ling <a href="mailto:K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk">K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk</a>, Sat 21 Feb 1998, 03:23 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00551" HREF="msg00551.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items (was: Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online)</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Sat 21 Feb 1998, 18:20 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00677" HREF="msg00677.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items (was: Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online)</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Tue 03 Mar 1998, 21:17 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00680" HREF="msg00680.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items (was: Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online)</A></strong>,
Nathan F Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Tue 03 Mar 1998, 23:52 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00136" HREF="msg00136.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] OT: DCOM and RMI</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Fri 09 Jan 1998, 07:04 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00134" HREF="msg00134.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] MUD Economy</A></strong>,
Brandon J. Rickman <a href="mailto:ashes#pc4,zennet.com">ashes#pc4,zennet.com</a>, Fri 09 Jan 1998, 06:59 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00111" HREF="msg00111.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Wild west (was Guilds & Politics)</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Thu 08 Jan 1998, 07:04 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00104" HREF="msg00104.html">OT: Jobs available</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Thu 08 Jan 1998, 01:53 GMT
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
</ul>
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