<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 -->
<!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Balancing Addicts -> soft vs. hard enforcement -->
<!--X-From-R13: [ngg Qunggreyrl <znggNzcp.qla.zy.bet> -->
<!--X-Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:57:02 +0000 -->
<!--X-Message-Id: Pine.LNX.3.96.980320083121.620B-100000#mpc,dyn.ml.org -->
<!--X-Content-Type: text/plain -->
<!--X-Reference: 199803180015.QAA23698#under,engr.sgi.com -->
<!--X-Head-End-->
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Balancing Addicts -> soft vs. hard enforcement</title>
<!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" -->
<link rev="made" href="mailto:matt#mpc,dyn.ml.org">
</head>
<body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff"
text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000">
<font size="+4" color="#804040">
<strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong>
</font>
<br>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
<br clear=all><hr>
<!--X-Body-Begin-->
<!--X-User-Header-->
<!--X-User-Header-End-->
<!--X-TopPNI-->
Date:
[ <a href="msg00782.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg00784.html">Next</a>
]
Thread:
[ <a href="msg00747.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg00838.html">Next</a>
]
Index:
[ <A HREF="author.html#00783">Author</A>
| <A HREF="#00783">Date</A>
| <A HREF="thread.html#00783">Thread</A>
]
<!--X-TopPNI-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-->
<!--X-Subject-Header-Begin-->
<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Balancing Addicts -> soft vs. hard enforcement</H1>
<HR>
<!--X-Subject-Header-End-->
<!--X-Head-of-Message-->
<UL>
<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Balancing Addicts -> soft vs. hard enforcement </LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Matt Chatterley <<A HREF="mailto:matt#mpc,dyn.ml.org">matt#mpc,dyn.ml.org</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:36:13 +0000 (GMT)</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:neddy#itl,net">neddy#itl,net</A></LI>
</UL>
<!--X-Head-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin-->
<HR>
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End-->
<!--X-Body-of-Message-->
<PRE>
On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, J C Lawrence wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:25:46 PST8PDT
> Jon A Lambert<jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com> wrote:
> > On 16 Mar 98 at 12:52, cimri wrote:
> >> Ling <K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > For instance the shopkeeper problem can be approached many
> > ways and here's my brief list from least to most desireable.
>
> > 2) Make shopkeepers much more powerful than any player or group of
> > players.
>
> This one is nof course difficult and prone to trouble. Given a
> flexible system with internally consistant mechanics (yeah right), the
> inventivness of players knows few bounds. Sure you can't kill the
> shopkeeper directly. But how about if you magically lift a small
> mountain and then drop it on him? How about if you blow the damn and
> put him under a few hundred feet of water? Lava? Fell a tree on him?
> Dig a very large pit under his feet? Poison? Strangulation?
> Suffocation? Starvation? Dehydration?
Given any situation (even a fairly 'normal' distended mud one), players
will strive to do the impossible, and also accomplish it. These players
are 'troublemakers' by nature (or rather, are often seen this way). A good
example from a game I played years ago is that a group of 'High Mortals'
eventually succeeded in the ultimate accolade. They killed the Devil.
Given it was impossible to get to him while still alive (theoretically),
this was rather neat (it involved a chain-sequence of very minor bugs,
infact, and was rather clever).
A far better response to making Shopkeepers into superheroes (just not
realistic) is simply to make it unworth the risk of belting them. You belt
the shopkeeper, polish off his guards, pick up the loot, stagger out the
shop... and stare right down the pointy ends of crossbows held by the
local guard captain and his posse.
Or alternately in a magical store, before dying, the shopkeeper pushes a
big red button on his counter, and the entire shop explodes.
Or anything equally evil. The first example is probaby the better for a
'general' case, though. :)
> > And finally
> > implement a in-game legal system (or a laughably unjust and
> > merciless one).
>
> Not that I have any ideas on there at all...
Ja. Heh.
> > The latter seems to most desirable as it provides a social deterent
> > and enhances the believability factor.
>
> Certainly! Laughably unjust and merciless legal systems are quite
> realistic and are familiar to many players. Island had a perfect case
> in point as Keegan discussed back when.
Very much so. My legal system appeared reasonable and just at first (or at
least many people thought so). Until it became clear that the nobility
(both players and NPCs) could quite literally get away with murder under
the right circumstances. It's not good to be a peasant in legal trouble.
:)
> <<If I drop his name enough, will he reappear?>>
I think you have to say it three times while turning in an anti-clockwise
circle, infront of a mirror. Kids: don't try this at home.
[Snip rest]
--
Regards,
-Matt Chatterley
Spod: <A HREF="http://user.super.net.uk/~neddy/spod/spod.html">http://user.super.net.uk/~neddy/spod/spod.html</A>
</PRE>
<!--X-Body-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-End-->
<!--X-Follow-Ups-->
<HR>
<ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>:
<ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00847" HREF="msg00847.html">OT: Martin Keegan</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> J C Lawrence <claw#under,engr.sgi.com></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00838" HREF="msg00838.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Balancing Addicts -> soft vs. hard enforcement</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Adam Wiggins <nightfall#user2,inficad.com></li></ul>
</UL></LI></UL>
<!--X-Follow-Ups-End-->
<!--X-References-->
<UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>:
<UL>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00744" HREF="msg00744.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Balancing Addicts -> soft vs. hard enforcement</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> J C Lawrence <claw#under,engr.sgi.com></LI></UL></LI>
</UL></LI></UL>
<!--X-References-End-->
<!--X-BotPNI-->
<UL>
<LI>Prev by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00782.html">Character development [was Re: ]</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00784.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Balancing Addicts -> soft vs. hard enforcement</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Prev by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00747.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Balancing Addicts -> soft vs. hard enforcement</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00838.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Balancing Addicts -> soft vs. hard enforcement</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Index(es):
<UL>
<LI><A HREF="index.html#00783"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI>
<LI><A HREF="thread.html#00783"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
<!--X-BotPNI-End-->
<!--X-User-Footer-->
<!--X-User-Footer-End-->
<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Balancing Addicts -> soft vs. hard enforcement</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00749" HREF="msg00749.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Balancing Addicts -> soft vs. hard enforcement</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Wed 18 Mar 1998, 07:56 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00784" HREF="msg00784.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Balancing Addicts -> soft vs. hard enforcement</A></strong>,
Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:matt#mpc,dyn.ml.org">matt#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Fri 20 Mar 1998, 09:57 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00744" HREF="msg00744.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Balancing Addicts -> soft vs. hard enforcement</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Wed 18 Mar 1998, 00:15 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00747" HREF="msg00747.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Balancing Addicts -> soft vs. hard enforcement</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Wed 18 Mar 1998, 07:56 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00783" HREF="msg00783.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Balancing Addicts -> soft vs. hard enforcement</A></strong>,
Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:matt#mpc,dyn.ml.org">matt#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Fri 20 Mar 1998, 09:57 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00838" HREF="msg00838.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Balancing Addicts -> soft vs. hard enforcement</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user2,inficad.com">nightfall#user2,inficad.com</a>, Mon 23 Mar 1998, 07:47 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00843" HREF="msg00843.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Balancing Addicts -> soft vs. hard enforcement</A></strong>,
Joel Dillon <a href="mailto:emily#cornholio,new.ox.ac.uk">emily#cornholio,new.ox.ac.uk</a>, Mon 23 Mar 1998, 14:50 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00847" HREF="msg00847.html">OT: Martin Keegan</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Mon 23 Mar 1998, 18:43 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00742" HREF="msg00742.html">META: topic and thread culling (was Re: [MUD-Dev] Balancing Addicts -> soft vs. hard enforcement )</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Tue 17 Mar 1998, 19:43 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
</ul>
<hr>
<center>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
</center>
<hr>
</body>
</html>
