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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: "'<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>'" <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Koster, Raph" <<A HREF="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:37:18 -0500 </LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marian Griffith [SMTP:gryphon#iaehv,nl]
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 1998 2:43 PM
> To: 'mud-dev#kanga,nu'
> Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun
>
> In <URL:<A HREF="news:local.muddev">news:local.muddev</A>> on Mon 29 Jun, Koster, Raph wrote:
>
> > If you are coding a system whereby nobody can strike another person
> > *even in justifiable circumstances*, what sort of society have you
> made,
> > and what sort of ruler are you?
>
> Here we have a point worth of very serious discussion. And one where I
> very much have to disagree with you. I do not belief that there can be
> justifiable circumstances to strike at somebody else. At least not in
> a game that attempts to provide a safe environment.
>
What about "keeping it safe"?
> And I'm willing to
> argue that the same is true in games like uol that do not attempt to
> create a safe environment. However this is indicative on your view on
> violence in games (a view that is shared by many current players).
>
I do want to make it clear that I am not a particularly huge fan of it
as a player. As a player, I am a hardcore roleplayer who doesn't usually
fight even NPCs and monsters--I spend most all my time interacting with
other players in roleplay. I merely feel that we can't ignore the factor
violence is. :(
> Those who do not enjoy the
> anarchistic principles of current muds could accept the limitation of
> their personal freedom to prevent such events/crimes from occuring in
> the first place. I know I would not mind.
>
Many people probably do not mind; certainly that is the classic
trade-off: less freedoms for greater security. There is also the classic
drawback: the people who take your freedoms and provide your security
can then do quite a lot to you and you have surrendered enough freedom
that you can't do anything about it. Of course, in a virtual context
this problem is much less of an issue than in the real world.
> > To get back to what you said, I think that a pure roleplay game of
> large
> > size will have to be a Stalinist setup, yes. And I don't LIKE it.
> Then
> > again, I think that MANY muds currently use such a restrictive
> setup.
>
> Restrictive does not make it stalinist. Nor fascist. The game prevents
> certain actions that would, if unchecked one way or the other, become
> harmfull to the majority of the players. Player's freedom is not taken
> away. Only certain actions that would otherwise be prevented in diffe-
> rent ways (e.g. by player vigilante activities).
>
I think Mike S. explained pretty well what I meant here...
> This is partly a problem because of the way power works in muds. The
> only
> power there is -is- that of the sword.
>
Not at all! As Dr Cat rightly points out, solutions such as ostracism
are very powerful. Of course, given the fluidity of identity, ostracism
is hard to implement. :(
-Raph
</PRE>
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<li><strong><A NAME="00071" HREF="msg00071.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> "Jon A. Lambert" <jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00047" HREF="msg00047.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Marian Griffith <gryphon#iaehv,nl></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00040" HREF="msg00040.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> "Dr. Cat" <cat#bga,com></li></ul>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00030" HREF="msg00030.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Thu 02 Jul 1998, 01:12 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00033" HREF="msg00033.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Thu 02 Jul 1998, 17:33 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00158" HREF="msg00158.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</a>, Sat 11 Jul 1998, 00:59 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00245" HREF="msg00245.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Sat 18 Jul 1998, 00:45 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00034" HREF="msg00034.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Thu 02 Jul 1998, 19:40 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00040" HREF="msg00040.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Dr. Cat <a href="mailto:cat#bga,com">cat#bga,com</a>, Fri 03 Jul 1998, 01:54 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00047" HREF="msg00047.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Fri 03 Jul 1998, 20:48 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00078" HREF="msg00078.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Wed 08 Jul 1998, 07:20 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00123" HREF="msg00123.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Thu 09 Jul 1998, 19:39 GMT
</LI>
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