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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Damion Schubert" <<A HREF="mailto:zjiria#texas,net">zjiria#texas,net</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:25:12 -0500</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
Continuing my reign as the resident devil's advocate. Note,
I'm not claiming I have any answers either. =)
-----Original Message-----
From: Brandon J. Rickman <ashes#pc4,zennet.com>
>The second priority is basically to take the fun out of player combat.
Pretty much, if any feature is not 'any fun', then my personal
belief is that you shouldn't waste your time coding it.
>Make quality weapons hard to obtain and keep. Make the skill curve very
>steep. More important is to limit the basic ability of players to attack
>other players.
Tangential note: on most MUDs, fighters aren't the problem. At
least my experience has found that mages and thieves tend
to be the best (worst) player killers. Do we take the fun out of
these skills too? =)
>Start fighters at a pre-adolescent age. The character must wait until
>they are physically mature enough to lift a sword. None of this "I grew
>up on the streets, I know how to fight" stuff, the character hasn't grown
>up anywhere yet.
This is essentially what Meridian does for player vs. player combat
only. Note that it led to the list of annoying abuses I sent in my previous
email in this thread.
>A player hacking at a deer with a sword is not going to get a usable hide.
>The purse of the innocent but now dead goblin was torn during the attack
>and all the gold fell through a hole in the ground.
Okay, in this mythical world you've created, what do players do for fun?
I'd hate to spend years working on a fantasy game, only to find that
newbies log off because the goblins don't drop any gold (a real problem
that afflicted UO on launch, I might add).
Again, if you don't want combat in your mud, it would save a lot of time
to just not put it in. =)
>Anyone who to tries really really hard to be a fighter can eventually
>develop into a very skilled and dangerous player. One hopes that the time
>and effort required will also make him a sophisticated player as well.
One would hope, but there is a certain class of players who will find ways
to do it faster than you expect, and then even perma-death has no meaning.
You could concievably slow the advancement curve to a period of weeks
per level but then you kill the fun of adventuring for any casual gamer.
>If all it takes to be a fighter is knowing the right commands and a small
>loan from the fighting collective then I don't think there is much chance
>of encouraging any variety of non-combat activity.
The best PKers can take the most complex fighting system you throw
at them, and then combine them with other strategies seamlessly (i.e.
where to run to heal when wounded, which magic wands can be used
during combat, etc). Augmenting this fact is the fact that most of these
people are also the ones that understand macro programs and other
helpers. This creates a huge gap in between the advanced player and
the casual one.
The interesting thing about long advancement schemes is that, by their
nature, they favor the players who (a) have been online the longest,
(b) suffered the fewest defeats, and (c) who know more about the ins
and outs of the game. This clearly favors the PKers in the long run.
>The easiest route to learning how to fight may well be by becoming a
>tailor. If a tailor suffers from attacks and extortion he would quickly
>gain the resolve to fight back if he chose. (But then there is more
>potential for drama, for unexpected twists and character development.)
If it really was the 'easiest route' of advancement (unclear what that
means),
then all it would mean is that your PKers would all start off as tailors.
--damion
</PRE>
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<li><strong><A NAME="00824" HREF="msg00824.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Marian Griffith <gryphon#iaehv,nl></li></ul>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00846" HREF="msg00846.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</a>, Wed 26 Aug 1998, 03:20 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00916" HREF="msg00916.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers</A></strong>,
Brandon J. Rickman <a href="mailto:ashes#pc4,zennet.com">ashes#pc4,zennet.com</a>, Thu 03 Sep 1998, 02:05 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00850" HREF="msg00850.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</a>, Wed 26 Aug 1998, 04:09 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00783" HREF="msg00783.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers</A></strong>,
Scatter <a href="mailto:scatter#thevortex,com">scatter#thevortex,com</a>, Thu 20 Aug 1998, 09:49 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00806" HREF="msg00806.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers</A></strong>,
Damion Schubert <a href="mailto:zjiria#texas,net">zjiria#texas,net</a>, Sat 22 Aug 1998, 03:19 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00824" HREF="msg00824.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Sun 23 Aug 1998, 10:42 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00811" HREF="msg00811.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers</A></strong>,
quzah <a href="mailto:quzah#geocities,com">quzah#geocities,com</a>, Sat 22 Aug 1998, 08:11 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00928" HREF="msg00928.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Thu 03 Sep 1998, 15:03 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00756" HREF="msg00756.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
S. Patrick Gallaty <a href="mailto:patrick#gric,com">patrick#gric,com</a>, Tue 18 Aug 1998, 00:48 GMT
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
</ul>
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