<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: ADMIN: Advertising on MUD-Dev --> <!--X-From-R13: Qnyvona Fverfvnf Rnexybpx <pnyvonaNqnexybpx.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:03:28 -0700 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 199808092359.RAA05912#darklock,com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 35CCEB3C.E86A1E4B#sparta,mainstream.net --> <!--X-Reference: Pine.PMDF.3.95.980809141350.541282407B-100000#nova,wright.edu --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, [MUD-Dev] Re: ADMIN: Advertising on MUD-Dev</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00600.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00602.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00592.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00596.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00601">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00601">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00601">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: ADMIN: Advertising on MUD-Dev</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: ADMIN: Advertising on MUD-Dev</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Caliban Tiresias Darklock <<A HREF="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 16:58:21 -0700</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On 02:22 PM 8/9/98 -0400, I personally witnessed s001gmu#nova,wright.edu jumping up to say: > >Besides, I don't see how a mail service provided advert is any different >from various ppl's sigs that advertise their particular web page/mud/ >whatever. Ban one, ya gotta ban 'em all. To play devil's advocate for a moment (although I agree with the sentiment of this post), .sig blocks have been subject to a lot of etiquette rules for a long time. When someone writes a .sig block, they have some idea of who they're corresponding with. When you append an ad to someone's e-mail, you have no idea where it's going or whether the ad is appropriate for that forum. And on the other end... you have to consider that these freemail services support themselves by selling advertising. If we deliberately subvert or bypass that revenue source, in whatever fashion, the value of that advertising will drop and eventually they will be forced to either take countermeasures or shut down. While one list certainly won't make or break the provider, it does set a dangerous precedent. If we serve as an example for others, and I think to at least some extent we do, we may end up creating a problem in the eyes of the advertisers -- and they'll have to do something about it. A lot of lists and newsgroups have grappled with the idea that some people who have URLs in their signatures are engaged in profit-oriented activities; while they don't mind Bob's home page in his signature, they often have a problem with advertising and somehow have to reconcile that Joe is a small business owner and his home page is basically the online presence for Joe's Web Design. Likewise, while we wouldn't be terribly happy if Bill posted a message to the list advertising his graphics CD-ROM collection, if John posts a message relevant to the forum through Bill's free e-mail service and Bill sticks a few lines about his CDs on there -- well, somehow we have to decide whether the ad is offensive enough to discard the content (There's some phrase about babies and bathwater in colloquial English, isn't there?), or at least to spend time and effort developing an ad-remover for posts. I think the latter will just end up gaining wider acceptance, and then result in a sort of war between advertisers and list managers where no one wins at all. If you attack the service provider's revenue source, the provider is going to begin getting VERY creative about how to protect it. And since that provider probably has more people spending more time on the matter than you do... guess who ends up winning? Not to mention it's a grudge match, and there's going to be a lot of injury on both sides. Who suffers most? List members and users of the service. On the filtering subject... personally, I think it's reasonable from both standpoints to take the ads out of the archives. There was, in the past, a de facto standard which said "three dashes in a row before and after the main body of the message to separate irrelevant content". Basically, <CR>---[-[...]]<CR> meant "this is a boundary". Most list processors still use this to determine when a command sequence ends, to separate the .sig block. I've seen very few ads from these freemail services, but I seem to recall they used the dash standard when I did see them. --- =+[ caliban#darklock,com ]=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=[ <A HREF="http://www.darklock.com/">http://www.darklock.com/</A> ]+= "It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage than the creation of a new system. For the initiator has the enmity of all who would profit by the preservation of the old institution, and merely lukewarm defenders in those who would gain by the new one." -- Niccolo Machiavelli =+=+[ FREE KEVIN * <A HREF="http://www.kevinmitnick.com/">http://www.kevinmitnick.com/</A> * IT COULD BE YOU ]+=+=+= </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00572" HREF="msg00572.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: ADMIN: Advertising on MUD-Dev</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Michael Hohensee <michael#sparta,mainstream.net></LI></UL></LI> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00589" HREF="msg00589.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: ADMIN: Advertising on MUD-Dev</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> s001gmu#nova,wright.edu</LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00600.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: lurker emerges</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00602.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: lurker emerges</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00592.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: ADMIN: Advertising on MUD-Dev</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00596.html">[MUD-Dev] ADMIN: Advertising on MUD-Dev</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00601"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00601"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: ADMIN: Advertising on MUD-Dev</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00571" HREF="msg00571.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: ADMIN: Advertising on MUD-Dev</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#kanga,nu">claw#kanga,nu</a>, Sun 09 Aug 1998, 03:16 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00572" HREF="msg00572.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: ADMIN: Advertising on MUD-Dev</A></strong>, Michael Hohensee <a href="mailto:michael#sparta,mainstream.net">michael#sparta,mainstream.net</a>, Sun 09 Aug 1998, 04:22 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00589" HREF="msg00589.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: ADMIN: Advertising on MUD-Dev</A></strong>, s001gmu <a href="mailto:s001gmu#nova,wright.edu">s001gmu#nova,wright.edu</a>, Sun 09 Aug 1998, 18:26 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00592" HREF="msg00592.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: ADMIN: Advertising on MUD-Dev</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#kanga,nu">claw#kanga,nu</a>, Sun 09 Aug 1998, 19:30 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00601" HREF="msg00601.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: ADMIN: Advertising on MUD-Dev</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Mon 10 Aug 1998, 00:03 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> <LI><strong><A NAME="00596" HREF="msg00596.html">[MUD-Dev] ADMIN: Advertising on MUD-Dev</A></strong>, Scatter <a href="mailto:scatter#thevortex,com">scatter#thevortex,com</a>, Sun 09 Aug 1998, 21:45 GMT </LI> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00559" HREF="msg00559.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: after the plague: mud report</A></strong>, quzah <a href="mailto:quzah#geocities,com">quzah#geocities,com</a>, Sat 08 Aug 1998, 10:19 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00624" HREF="msg00624.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: after the plague: mud report</A></strong>, Ling <a href="mailto:K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk">K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk</a>, Mon 10 Aug 1998, 12:47 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00635" HREF="msg00635.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: after the plague: mud report</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</a>, Mon 10 Aug 1998, 17:35 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>