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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: META: who are we?</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: META: who are we?</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Caliban Tiresias Darklock <<A HREF="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:30:10 -0700</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On 04:06 PM 9/22/98 -0500, I personally witnessed Koster, Raph jumping up
to say:
>
>How many of you are from a Diku background, like me? And might be
>interested in stuff that is codebase specific?
I *like* Dikus. I think their simplicity and understandability far outweigh
the supposed "lack of realism" that a room-based system implies. I continue
to prefer Diku-derivatives over other more "proper" MUD technologies.
>How many find that stuff
>anathema and think it should be avoided at all costs?
Too many. But consider that *I* think the general talk about
coordinate-based systems is relatively dumb; I wouldn't like a
coordinate-based system, I wouldn't want to play such a MUD, and I think
it's a bad idea in general. But it still gets discussed, and if I don't
want to discuss it -- I don't have to!
I think there ought to be some sort of implied agreement on a list that if
you think system X sucks, you keep it to yourself when people discuss the
proper implementation of system X. When people ask if system X is a good
idea, THEN you can say it sucks. But when people say "I am using system X
and I have this problem", they don't give a flying leap how many people
think it sucks. "Don't use system X" is NOT a solution, nor is it
productive commentary. If system X has a problem, or even several problems,
then those problems can certainly be discussed, but with the aim of
providing solutions -- not of invalidating said system as "generally
undesirable" or the like.
Much of this rant stems from the fact that I asked a question about MFC 4.1
on a Windows development list recently, and was advised that MFC sucks and
I should be using STL instead and should probably not be using MFC 4.1 in
any case considering the current release is 6.0 and 4.1 has bugs and
missing features. But the fact remains, I am using MFC 4.1 and I have a
problem. Telling me to throw everything out and start over is not a
solution. I see this a lot on lists, including this one, and it really
bothers me that people think this is EVER an acceptable response to a
request for help within the context of the list charter. It's like saying
"you aren't one of us so we won't help you". Annoyingly, this sort of thing
tends to drive these people off the list, so the next guy who likes and
uses the same technology finds no kindred spirit there.
>How many think the list is too theoretical,
To paraphrase Karl Marx, I do not trust a physicist. As soon as a physicist
worms his way in, all hell breaks loose. ;>
>or feel intimidated by the frequent posters and
>by the volume of past history and discussions that seems to be requied
>knowledge in order to participate?
This list intimidates the hell out of me. There are some truly brilliant
people here. But we've always been reasonably civil to each other on most
counts, which is more than I can say for other lists... I'd have to say
that MUD-Dev is the single best mailing list I've ever been on, and that's
saying a hell of a lot. Intimidation is good; it means you can learn a lot
here. It's just up to you to do the actual learning. :)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <caliban#darklock,com> | "I'm not sorry or
Darklock Communications <<A HREF="http://www.darklock.com/">http://www.darklock.com/</A>> | ashamed of who I
PGP Key AD21EE50 at <<A HREF="http://pgp5.ai.mit.edu/~bal/">http://pgp5.ai.mit.edu/~bal/</A>> | really am."
FREE KEVIN MITNICK! <<A HREF="http://www.kevinmitnick.com/">http://www.kevinmitnick.com/</A>> | - Charles Manson
</PRE>
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<li><strong><A NAME="01158" HREF="msg01158.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: who are we?</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> "T. Alexander Popiel" <popiel#snugharbor,com></li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="01093" HREF="msg01093.html">[MUD-Dev] META: who are we?</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Koster, Raph" <rkoster#origin,ea.com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: Object transitions, was Re: Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01180" HREF="msg01180.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Object transitions, was Re: Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?</A></strong>,
Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vt#freehold,crocodile.org">vt#freehold,crocodile.org</a>, Thu 24 Sep 1998, 05:42 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01123" HREF="msg01123.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?</A></strong>,
Hal Black <a href="mailto:hal#moos,ml.org">hal#moos,ml.org</a>, Wed 23 Sep 1998, 04:33 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01178" HREF="msg01178.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Thu 24 Sep 1998, 05:23 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01093" HREF="msg01093.html">[MUD-Dev] META: who are we?</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Tue 22 Sep 1998, 21:09 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01102" HREF="msg01102.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: who are we?</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Tue 22 Sep 1998, 22:32 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01158" HREF="msg01158.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: who are we?</A></strong>,
T. Alexander Popiel <a href="mailto:popiel#snugharbor,com">popiel#snugharbor,com</a>, Wed 23 Sep 1998, 20:44 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01103" HREF="msg01103.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: who are we?</A></strong>,
Richard Woolcock <a href="mailto:KaVir#dial,pipex.com">KaVir#dial,pipex.com</a>, Tue 22 Sep 1998, 22:38 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01107" HREF="msg01107.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: who are we?</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Tue 22 Sep 1998, 23:02 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01112" HREF="msg01112.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: who are we?</A></strong>,
James Wilson <a href="mailto:jwilson#rochester,rr.com">jwilson#rochester,rr.com</a>, Wed 23 Sep 1998, 00:20 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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