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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Andy Cink <<A HREF="mailto:ranthor#earthlink,net">ranthor#earthlink,net</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:25:14 -0700</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
At 10:55 AM 9/25/98 -0700, "S. Patrick Gallaty" wrote:
>
>Stop!
>The 'leveling' concept amonst adventuring muds is a
>tried and true concept. You are doing what UO did, imo
>which is to confuse playability. There's a very good reason
>why levels and level concepts work, and that simply is
>because it's an unambiguous marker of accomplishment.
If everyone stuck to the tried and true concepts:
A) Very few of us would still be on mud-dev
B) There would be little in the way of innovation in muds
Level is really just a stereotype. Stereotypes make our
lives easier, it helps us "understand" other people with
a minimum of expended effort. If you type who and see
"Bob is level 15" and you know it's a 50 level mud, you
have a good idea who Bob is already. You know where Bob
stands in relation to you. You know if Bob could likely
kill you or not in battle. This is a powerful advantage.
Further which, you have a clearly defined "end" to the
game. I always hated the end of a "career" on a mud that
I liked to play. It does give a sense of accomplishment,
but then again.. what have you REALLY accomplished? The
next time they do a file wipe it counts for jack anyways.
So what it boils down to, is that level is really just a
way to measure progress along a continuum. Wouldn't it be
more fun to have a large continuum, with slow continual
progression and lots to do in the meantime? Relative
power levels are all that really matter anyways, right?
If a level 15 can kill a lizardman, and my levelless char
on a levelless mud can kill a lizardman.. then what is the
difference?
It seems to me reliance on level is just sort of a
carryover from old muds and AD&D. I know on my mud,
I've fought major wars with the immortal staff over
doing away with experience points and levels. I still
don't quite understand their totally irrational FEAR of
not having levels anymore. It's like a psychological
dependence, or something.
Then again, having a simple tried and true design might
indeed get you more players. *shrug* But in my mind, those
aren't the players I want anyways.
>Whenever you are thinking of designing a satisfying game
>system you have to remember the three elements.
> 1) Suspension of disbelief
> 2) Progress related to effort
> 3) Goal and reward
>
>We suffer through the design decisions of UO already - no
>need to emulate that.
Who suffers? When I played UO, I saw DROVES of people who
played all day long. The terrible lag was a testament to
just how addictive the game was. All I saw was a lot of
people having a good time. You can still have progress
related to effort and goal and reward, even in a levelless
system. Look at UO.. to me anyways, when I could cast an
important spell reliably that I couldn't cast before, that
was a symbol of a goal reached, of progress. When I could
kill liches repeatedly and get nice magical loot without
dying, that was a sign of progress. While every system has
its flaws, I don't consider UO's system to be unplayable or
unrewarding.
Andy
------------------------------------------------------
EARTH FIRST! We'll stripmine the other planets later.
Head Coder for Renegade Knights MUD
Ranthor#earthlink,net
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="01224" HREF="msg01224.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "S. Patrick Gallaty" <choke#sirius,com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01223" HREF="msg01223.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
Michael.Willey <a href="mailto:Michael.Willey#abnamro,com">Michael.Willey#abnamro,com</a>, Fri 25 Sep 1998, 16:06 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01328" HREF="msg01328.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
Brandon J. Rickman <a href="mailto:ashes#pc4,zennet.com">ashes#pc4,zennet.com</a>, Mon 28 Sep 1998, 03:27 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01224" HREF="msg01224.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
S. Patrick Gallaty <a href="mailto:choke#sirius,com">choke#sirius,com</a>, Fri 25 Sep 1998, 17:55 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01227" HREF="msg01227.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
Adam J. Thornton <a href="mailto:adam#phoenix,Princeton.EDU">adam#phoenix,Princeton.EDU</a>, Fri 25 Sep 1998, 18:53 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01229" HREF="msg01229.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
Andy Cink <a href="mailto:ranthor#earthlink,net">ranthor#earthlink,net</a>, Fri 25 Sep 1998, 19:30 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01258" HREF="msg01258.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
quzah [sotfhome] <a href="mailto:quzah#softhome,net">quzah#softhome,net</a>, Sat 26 Sep 1998, 06:24 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01259" HREF="msg01259.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
quzah [sotfhome] <a href="mailto:quzah#softhome,net">quzah#softhome,net</a>, Sat 26 Sep 1998, 06:27 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01260" HREF="msg01260.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
Oliver Jowett <a href="mailto:oliver#jowett,manawatu.planet.co.nz">oliver#jowett,manawatu.planet.co.nz</a>, Sat 26 Sep 1998, 07:28 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01325" HREF="msg01325.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#kanga,nu">claw#kanga,nu</a>, Mon 28 Sep 1998, 03:05 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
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