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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Jon A. Lambert" <<A HREF="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 01:19:33 -5</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On 5 Aug 98, s001gmu#nova,wright.edu wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Jon A. Lambert wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > My basic point is this.
> >
> > If a mud allows unrestricted and nonconsential PvP interaction, then
> > anyone who participates in such a game does so voluntarily and
> > willingly. There can be no "victims" in such a game, either
> > emotionally or physically.
>
> The key to this approach is the implicit understanding of the player that
> the game 'allows unrestricted and nonconsential PvP interaction'. If a
> game is purported to be safe, but actually allows pk, etc, then there
> certainly are victims. Not victims of pk, but victims of the original
> lie, that the system is 'safe'.
Exactly. The effects of this claim on a player whose expectations
are one of safeness and protection lead to claims of victimhood,
unfairness and/or injustice. This may even have legal repercussions
as was alluded to in another thread (Dr. Cat & JCL). I hope not.
There are many muds which attempt to allow PK/non-PK environments to
coexist through various mechanisms. (ie flagging, restrictions etc.)
I have yet to see a mud (that did this) where two separate and
very discordant societies did not develop. Personally, I don't find
this to be a desireable environment. I wonder how much of this is
motivated by the getting the "most players" issue? Does this reflect
a weak or compromised vision by an implementor(s)?
> [snip]
>
> > Which brings me back to my original point. If one participates
> > frequently in games which allow killing, how can one rational
> > consider RL emotional effects of being a "victim" should such action
> > occur to themself while participating in such a game? And if so why
> > the heck would one voluntarily participate in any such game. In
> > other words, one holds the viewpoint that their virtual game piece is
> > a personal avatar of themself. Actions which affect that avatar are
> > viewed equivalently with RL actions (PK ~= harassment). They are
> > participating in a game in which they have expectations which are not
> > reflective of the game rules nor ther players expectations. I think
> > it's incumbent upon the administrators of a such a game to be upfront
> > and define their own expectations and assumptions of their playerbase
> > as clearly as possible.
>
> Which means, if I understand correctly, that you are saying 'the admin
> should make it clear what the rules of the game are, before anyone plays,
> and if there is a misunderstanding and someone get's torqued off, well,
> too bad, you read the rules and agreed.' Right?
>
Basically, yes. Although I had to go and get all longwinded about
it. There's something to be said for brevity. Thanks. ;)
--
--/*\ Jon A. Lambert - TychoMUD Internet:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com /*\--
--/*\ Mud Server Developer's Page <<A HREF="http://www.netcom.com/~jlsysinc">http://www.netcom.com/~jlsysinc</A>> /*\--
--/*\ "Everything that deceives may be said to enchant" - Plato /*\--
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00484" HREF="msg00484.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Jon A. Lambert" <jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com></LI></UL></LI>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00487" HREF="msg00487.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> s001gmu#nova,wright.edu</LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00484" HREF="msg00484.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Wed 05 Aug 1998, 07:38 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00486" HREF="msg00486.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Robert Woods <a href="mailto:rwoods#nebula,honors.unr.edu">rwoods#nebula,honors.unr.edu</a>, Wed 05 Aug 1998, 08:49 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00554" HREF="msg00554.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Sat 08 Aug 1998, 05:22 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00487" HREF="msg00487.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
s001gmu <a href="mailto:s001gmu#nova,wright.edu">s001gmu#nova,wright.edu</a>, Wed 05 Aug 1998, 13:28 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00553" HREF="msg00553.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Sat 08 Aug 1998, 05:22 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00035" HREF="msg00035.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Thu 02 Jul 1998, 19:46 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00278" HREF="msg00278.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Tue 21 Jul 1998, 18:02 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00281" HREF="msg00281.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</a>, Tue 21 Jul 1998, 18:50 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00299" HREF="msg00299.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Dr. Cat <a href="mailto:cat#bga,com">cat#bga,com</a>, Wed 22 Jul 1998, 01:56 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
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