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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Travis Casey <<A HREF="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 02:53:10 -0400</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On 22 September 1998, Vadim Tkachenko wrote:
> Vladimir Prelovac wrote:
>> The spells are one of my concerns. I am looking for a spell system, that
>> would be possible to code, and would let the spellcasters create new spells
>> in the game.
> Basic question:
> OK, I want to create the 'Apocalypse' spell, destroying every player in
> the area of effect, except myself.
> And at the same time I joined the game 5 minutes ago.
> How are you going to define the limitations on the spell being created?
Umm... through the spell creation system? That's part of what he's
trying to figure out right now!
To give some more detail, though, there are several possible ways that
one can limit what spells can be created:
- If you don't want a particular class of effects, don't have any way
to create them. For example, in my own paper RPG world of Tobara,
mortal mages cannot manipulate space or time. To reflect that, the
spell creation system has been built in such a way that there is no
way to build spells which manipulate space or time.
- Make creating spells a probabilistic process. That is, the player
can sit down and think up a spell, and try to have his/her
character create it, but the character has to make a skill check to
do it, which is harder for more complex or powerful spells. Thus,
new characters either can't create powerful spells or have a low
chance of creating them, while more experienced characters stand a
good chance of successfully creating them.
- Simply prevent some characters from creating some spells. This is
a variation on the previous method.
- Make spell research take time. That is, "Ok... you can research
that Apocalypse spell, but at your skill level, it's going to take
you sixteen years of game time."
Of course, even if a character can *design* a spell, that doesn't
necessarily mean he/she can *cast* it. Most spell design systems end
up by assigning a difficulty of some sort to the spell -- either a
difficulty value for difficulty-based systems, or a spell level for
systems which use those, or something else like that. Thus, the
character may research the Apocalypse spell, and then find that he/she
won't be able to cast it until he/she reaches 51st level.
>> Something like spell researching. What I, so far, have in mind
>> is making a base of 50 or 100 various effects that a spell may produce.
> Again, why limit yourself with numbers like 50? Why not 500? Why not
> just X?
I don't think he was limiting himself... I think he'd already decided
on a granularity for the effects, and was estimating that 50 to 100
should cover all the effects he wants to allow.
Deciding the granularity of the effects is an important thing -- for a
paper RPG, I prefer low granularity, since the GM can work out
details. In an mud, I'd prefer high granularity, so the automated
systems can do more of the work.
>> Then making a base of 50-60 basic spells (as a combination of those
>> effects)
> What about the side and cumulative effects of the variouse spell
> components?
> How about creating a complex spell by sequencing some simpler spells and
> setting a proper timing for them (I guess, that was discussed here
> before)?
Those are ideas for how to do a spell creation system... which is what
he's trying to figure out. :-)
I'm sure he'll hit the idea for sequencing simpler spells and setting
timings for them when he goes through the archives.
>> ALL the other spells shall become to existance by the spellcasting players > themselves (ie. after some time spend on research, mixing various material > and such, a mage could come up with a new
>> spell).
> How would you define the necessity of some material component for the
> spell? See, if you just say "I want this spell to require the feather"
> and that's it, it's not fun, but if you say "This spell requires a
> feather because...", it's completely different.
There are several methods in use in different spell creation systems:
- Players define material components to make spells easier. There
may be a list of possible material components which depends on the
classification of the spell (e.g., "feather" might be a possible
component for "air movement" spells). Different components might
have different effects on the difficulty of the spell -- e.g., a
feather makes it a little easier, but a feather from the Simurgh
makes it *much* easier.
- Players are required to choose a certain number of material
components, decided by the spell creation system.
- The spell creation system randomly assigns material components,
using tables for each effect.
- Spells don't require material components, but players can choose to
use them at casting time to make the spell easier. (A "late
binding" version of the first one.)
Of course, these can be mixed. In Tobara, material components are
normally used to make spells easier, but there is an exception: in
order to cast a spell on a person or object that is not in your line
of sight and which you are not touching, you need to either have
something from that person or object, or know its true name.
>> He would then give it a name, write it to his spellbook, and maybe teach it > to his friends. That way the new spell, carrying the name he gave it, would > be tought in the lands for generations
>> after.
> Good idea, tough to implement, though ;-)
Few worthwhile things are easy. :-)
--
|\ _,,,---,,_ Travis S. Casey <efindel#io,com>
ZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ No one agrees with me. Not even me.
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_)
</PRE>
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<li><strong><A NAME="01137" HREF="msg01137.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Niklas Elmqvist <d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="01129" HREF="msg01129.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> James Wilson <jwilson#rochester,rr.com></li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="01120" HREF="msg01120.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Vadim Tkachenko <vt#freehold,crocodile.org></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01206" HREF="msg01206.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
Brandon J. Rickman <a href="mailto:ashes#pc4,zennet.com">ashes#pc4,zennet.com</a>, Fri 25 Sep 1998, 02:43 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01228" HREF="msg01228.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: numbers - was Re: spellcraft</A></strong>,
Orion Henry <a href="mailto:orionz#ix,netcom.com">orionz#ix,netcom.com</a>, Fri 25 Sep 1998, 19:28 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01217" HREF="msg01217.html">[MUD-Dev] Let's talk about numbers.</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Fri 25 Sep 1998, 06:00 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01323" HREF="msg01323.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Let's talk about numbers.</A></strong>,
Brandon J. Rickman <a href="mailto:ashes#pc4,zennet.com">ashes#pc4,zennet.com</a>, Mon 28 Sep 1998, 02:52 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01128" HREF="msg01128.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</a>, Wed 23 Sep 1998, 06:56 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01129" HREF="msg01129.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
James Wilson <a href="mailto:jwilson#rochester,rr.com">jwilson#rochester,rr.com</a>, Wed 23 Sep 1998, 11:56 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01209" HREF="msg01209.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</a>, Fri 25 Sep 1998, 04:04 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01137" HREF="msg01137.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
Niklas Elmqvist <a href="mailto:d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se">d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se</a>, Wed 23 Sep 1998, 15:33 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01210" HREF="msg01210.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</a>, Fri 25 Sep 1998, 04:31 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
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