<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions --> <!--X-From-R13: Vny Pynpx <unyNzbbf.zy.bet> --> <!--X-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:09:57 -0700 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 19980930213035.33113#moos,ml.org --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 19980927190708.16944#moos,ml.org --> <!--X-Reference: Pine.GSO.3.95q.980929114659.4417A-100000@uhunix2 --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, [MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:hal#moos,ml.org"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg01394.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01396.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg01371.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01316.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#01395">Author</A> | <A HREF="#01395">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#01395">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Hal Black <<A HREF="mailto:hal#moos,ml.org">hal#moos,ml.org</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:30:35 -0400</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On Tue, Sep 29, 1998 at 12:10:33PM -1000, Nathan F Yospe wrote: > On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, Hal Black wrote: > > :Someone has to make the universe rules. And the game engine is your tool for > :making that reality manifest to immerse players in it. Surely you shouldn't > :have to tell players this... But what happens when some circumstance happens > :that they DO end up outside? Either you can monitor the game all the time as > :the admin and type stuff in (which I'd never attempt) or you can code it once > :and let the players play and let the engine take care of this kind of thing. > > Bingo. Either another convert, or convergent design. 8') Convergent design in this case I think. I've been planning this sort of thing for some time, since before I joined the list. Looks like you are doing some excellent stuff with Physmud from what I have read in the archives. Can't wait to see it in action. > :What??? > : I just said that if they are different, they get different perceptions. [...] > :if (character.body.can_see()) character.render(VISION,room.desc); > :if (character.body.can_smell()) character.render(SMELL,room.scent); > > :In a nutshell: if Mark can't smell, he doesn't get smell messages!!! > : if Sam can't see, he doesn't get vision messages!!! > > Of course, you might want to make this less absolute... see my (superceded) > earlier design with a sensory level based markup language... now consider a > version that takes into account lighting levels, etc... I absolutely plan to do it that way. The aim above was to have a very simple example for purposes of illustration and brevity. The real model will have different types of energy at different magnitudes. Maybe a member of a canid race will be able to hear that thief sneaking up behind him because of his acute hearing, while a human might not, etc. > :> Hal Black : > :> >Sam in his spacesuit. > > :> >Sam in a leaky spacesuit. > > :> see above ;) > > :Here is some pseudo-code for you to implement this. What's good about it is > :that you only have to implement the body once, and it will work in any > :environment. There are other, more sophisticated, ways to do this too, so that > :vampires don't breathe, for instance if you don't want them to breathe in your > :world. I am trying to be brief here. > > : body human interfaces living { > : breathe { > : if (not breathable(environment.air)) { > : choke(); > : } > : call(1 seconds, breathe); > : } > : bool breathable(gas theGas) { > : if theGas = earthlike return true; > : else return false; > : } > : } > > : environment room { > : theAir = smoky; > : gas air() { > : if (body.in_sealed_container()) > : return body.container.environment.air(); > : else > : return theAir; > : } > : } > > : environment suit { > : gas air() { > : if (punctured) > : return (environment.air()); > : else > : return earthlike; > : } > : } > > :So it is kinda messy wrt to variable names and type names... sue me, it's > :pseudo-code. 8') > > And looks suspiciously java-inspired. Or is that just me? :) Caught red handed. 8') Yup, current (non)working code is in Java. > :> Dont you see though, that "viewer specific" descriptions do this just > :> as forcefully, and "un-correctly" as a static one. The only difference is > :> whoever > :> wrote the specific descriptions tried to get inside that viewers character > :> more than one time. He just colored thousands more descriptions with his > :> own personal ideas, prejudices, understandings, than the person that > :> writes one. Those "viewer specific" descriptions are no more accurate > :> or entertaining than one, in fact, they have intruded so much, that now > :> wherever I go, im told, "for my specific circumstances" what I see, hear > :> etc. Cant I get a chance to do that? Why does the game engine have to kick > :> me out of my character in each room, and tell me specifically for my character > :> now, what i see, hear, etc.. > > :I have never advocated that the game engine should take you out of your > :character and tell you how you feel. However, the physical body of your > :character will - IN SOME CASES - bias your viewpoint. The engine can give > > Yes. In fact... well, if you look in the archives, you'll even see posts > about implementing "blind rage" and the like, along with player-intelligence > based perception... Yes, there is a very interesting post in the archives somewhere about using player intervention to override instinctive action by the character. (search for Kzin) That is a very cool feature I'd like to add for some of the advanced roleplaying races. > :> Im going to use a simple principle here : > > :> Akhams Razor. > : > :Actually it's either Ockham's or Occam's Razor in English. > > Occam's. I'm a scientist. I use There are actually two accepted spellings as mentioned above. I don't think they were as strict about spelling back in the day as we are now. > :Occam was born before there were things like quantum physics. 8') > > :Since you're quoting Occam, it is interesting to note in the context of this > :debate that he applied his theory to psychological powers distinct for each > :mode of sense. 8') > > Also, the quote considered only viable explanations. And quantum physics is > pretty simple, honest. Now, high energy quantum chromodynamics... or string > theory... or supersymmetry... Heh. I wish I knew more about that kind of thing. I'm an EE so at least I could have taken some solid state, but I took more math instead. Only so much time I guess. </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="01315" HREF="msg01315.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Hal Black <hal#moos,ml.org></LI></UL></LI> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="01371" HREF="msg01371.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Nathan F Yospe <yospe#hawaii,edu></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01394.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01396.html">[MUD-Dev] UO lawsuit (fwd)</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01371.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01316.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#01395"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#01395"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="01318" HREF="msg01318.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>, Hal Black <a href="mailto:hal#moos,ml.org">hal#moos,ml.org</a>, Mon 28 Sep 1998, 00:58 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01321" HREF="msg01321.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#kanga,nu">claw#kanga,nu</a>, Mon 28 Sep 1998, 02:19 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01320" HREF="msg01320.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#kanga,nu">claw#kanga,nu</a>, Mon 28 Sep 1998, 01:16 GMT </LI> </ul> <LI><strong><A NAME="01371" HREF="msg01371.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>, Nathan F Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Tue 29 Sep 1998, 22:11 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01395" HREF="msg01395.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>, Hal Black <a href="mailto:hal#moos,ml.org">hal#moos,ml.org</a>, Thu 01 Oct 1998, 01:09 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </ul> <LI><strong><A NAME="01316" HREF="msg01316.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Sun 27 Sep 1998, 23:19 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01322" HREF="msg01322.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>, Adam J. Thornton <a href="mailto:adam#phoenix,Princeton.EDU">adam#phoenix,Princeton.EDU</a>, Mon 28 Sep 1998, 02:35 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01319" HREF="msg01319.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>, apocalypse <a href="mailto:apocalypse#pipeline,com">apocalypse#pipeline,com</a>, Mon 28 Sep 1998, 01:11 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01331" HREF="msg01331.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Mon 28 Sep 1998, 14:07 GMT </LI> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>