<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: An Introduction --> <!--X-From-R13: Qnyvona Fverfvnf Rnexybpx <pnyvonaNqnexybpx.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:09:23 -0700 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 199807240112.TAA02666#darklock,com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: asmodai#wxs,nl --> <!--X-Reference: 35A2F910.A3EEDF0D#wxs,nl --> <!--X-Reference: 199807240009.RAA02863#under,engr.sgi.com --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, [MUD-Dev] Re: An Introduction</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00326.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00328.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00325.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00328.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00327">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00327">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00327">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: An Introduction</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: An Introduction </LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Caliban Tiresias Darklock <<A HREF="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:05:30 -0700</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On 05:09 PM 7/23/98 -0700, I personally witnessed J C Lawrence jumping up to say: >On Wed, 08 Jul 1998 06:44:01 +0200 >Asmodai <Jeroen> wrote: > >> Also, which books are recommended to start with network programming, >> preferably TCP/IP based and for C/C++. > >I like the Steven's TCP/IP books, but also hear good things about >Comer's (which I haven't looked at in detail). In the defense industry, many of my colleagues believed you could spot the real professional network programmers by which of these series they had on the shelf. The competent professional had Comer. The expert professional had Stevens. (The impostor had Stevens on the shelf and Comer in a drawer; you could spot an impostor by opening his Stevens volume to see if the binding cracked. Impostors are also known to subscribe to technical magazines they don't read just so they can leave them lying around on their desk.) In addition, the more worn and tattered the book was, the harder the developer worked. Ideally, you would hire a developer who had two copies of Stevens; one falling apart and unreadable, the other well-worn. That generally indicated someone who not only worked his tail off, but was emotionally attached to his first copy of Stevens, which marked him as a true network hacker. Use of the male pronoun above is not to be construed as restrictive, and I make no claims as to the validity of the generalisation detailed above. From my own perspective, Stevens' books are based strongly on theory and real understanding of the protocols and architecture, while Comer's are more pegged toward real application and development. I would venture to say that if you want to be writing code fast, go with Comer, but if you want to really understand what you're doing (and you can handle the deep magic) go with Stevens. Definitely get Stevens at some point, because while you'll eventually outgrow Comer... no one outgrows Stevens. "TCP/IP Illustrated" is one of those series everyone OUGHT to have, but not enough people do. I consider him about as essential as Knuth. >On the C/C++ side it really depends on where you are coming from. I >start with K&R for C and went straight to Strousup for C++ (not a >generally recommended route), so can't comment terribly well there -- >tho I do like Pohl's C++ books. I've been highly impressed with Jesse Liberty ("Teach Yourself C++ in 21 Days", Sams press). He's got a knack for taking complex ideas and presenting them in easy-to-understand ways, and if you read his more advanced books it becomes very evident that this guy isn't just some halfwit programming wannabe that thought he'd write a book (which is the sort of impression I get from Kris Jamsa, for example)... he's a serious developer. "Clouds to Code" was particularly inspirational, and virtually peerless in terms of subject matter. </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00800" HREF="msg00800.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: An Introduction</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> J C Lawrence <claw#under,engr.sgi.com></li></ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00328" HREF="msg00328.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: An Introduction</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> "Adam J. Thornton" <adam#phoenix,Princeton.EDU></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00072" HREF="msg00072.html">[MUD-Dev] An Introduction</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai <asmodai#wxs,nl></LI></UL></LI> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00325" HREF="msg00325.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: An Introduction</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> J C Lawrence <claw#under,engr.sgi.com></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00326.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Databases: was Re: skill system</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00328.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: An Introduction</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00325.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: An Introduction</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00328.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: An Introduction</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00327"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00327"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Monthly FAQ Posting</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00703" HREF="msg00703.html">[MUD-Dev] Monthly FAQ Posting</A></strong>, Ling <a href="mailto:K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk">K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk</a>, Thu 13 Aug 1998, 13:29 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00980" HREF="msg00980.html">[MUD-Dev] Monthly FAQ Posting</A></strong>, Ling <a href="mailto:K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk">K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk</a>, Mon 07 Sep 1998, 17:27 GMT </LI> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00072" HREF="msg00072.html">[MUD-Dev] An Introduction</A></strong>, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai <a href="mailto:asmodai#wxs,nl">asmodai#wxs,nl</a>, Wed 08 Jul 1998, 04:42 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00325" HREF="msg00325.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: An Introduction</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Fri 24 Jul 1998, 00:13 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00327" HREF="msg00327.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: An Introduction</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Fri 24 Jul 1998, 01:09 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00328" HREF="msg00328.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: An Introduction</A></strong>, Adam J. Thornton <a href="mailto:adam#phoenix,Princeton.EDU">adam#phoenix,Princeton.EDU</a>, Fri 24 Jul 1998, 02:16 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00800" HREF="msg00800.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: An Introduction</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Sat 22 Aug 1998, 01:52 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00803" HREF="msg00803.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: An Introduction</A></strong>, Adam J. Thornton <a href="mailto:adam#phoenix,princeton.edu">adam#phoenix,princeton.edu</a>, Sat 22 Aug 1998, 02:53 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00069" HREF="msg00069.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: (fwd) Re: command parsers: a modest proposal (with apologies to J. Swift)</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Wed 08 Jul 1998, 02:02 GMT </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>