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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Adam Wiggins <<A HREF="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:47:35 -0700 (PDT)</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On Sat, 26 Sep 1998, Raph & Kristen Koster wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Sep 1998, Orion Henry wrote:
> > "Koster, Raph" wrote:
> > > I've often seen it cited as a rule that room descriptions in muds should
> > > not impose feelings on the player or character.
> > [snip]
> > I must say that they are very well written but I come from a very
> > minimalist school of throughout on room descriptions.
> > [snip]
> > A room description does not affect a character and therefore
> > should not pretend to. In an ideal situation a room should not
> > even make mention of objects or people. It should be concise
> > and at most two sentences long.
>
> Again, the same accepted wisdom. I am more interested in WHY we feel
> that's the way it should be.
Rather than attempting to respond to the various posts in this thread
point by point, I'll just sum up my own (strong) views on the subject.
First of all, Raph, I think your perception of the "accepted wisdom"
is a bit off the mark. While it may be true that the "don't-impose-feelings-
on-players" school of thought shows itself often in area writing guides,
this is RARELY put into practice. I don't think I've ever played a mud
which didn't use the word "you" at least a few times in room descriptions;
most use it copiously. This despite the fact that area writing guides
always state that the word "you" is a no-no and should not be used.
So my view is that the whole method of writing an area by imposing a
storyline and emotions upon the viewer/reader is actually done to death.
Legend is probably the most extreme example of this method, and does an
extremelly good job. This is true of much more than just the room
descriptions, I might add; if you recall the conversations we had over
email long before either of us had joined mud-dev, I took exception to the
inflexible story-based nature of the quests, while you assured me that this
was Legend's whole goal.
So given that this method HAS been done to death (does anyone disagree
wit this point?), I find more sparsely described locations (rooms) which
have a higher degree of interactivity and changability much more appealing to
work on, just because I feel that it has rarely been done, and never done well.
This all began the very first time I played a mud, where I made my way through
the typical mud areas. It looked something like this:
% n
The Vampire's Crypt
As you trudge deeper into the spooky crypt, dust and cobwebs make it
difficult to breathe. The rough stone walls are coated in slime and goo,
which drips off to pool in crevices in the floor. As your booted foot descends
you jerk back quickly to avoid stepping on a scurrying rat, whose eyes flash
once, then it disappears into a crack in the wall.
% get cobweb
You don't see that here.
% get cobwebs
You don't see that here.
% kill rat
You don't see anything like that here.
% remove boots
You aren't wearing any boots.
% get slime
You don't see that here.
% look at vampire
You don't see that here.
% n
The Vampire's Lair
Finally you have reached the lowest level of the crypt. Before you is a
massive stone coffin, the lid slightly ajar. As you watch in horror, the lid
moves aside ever so slightly and a pale hand emerges! Moments later an
elaborately garbed man with incredibly pale skin is standing before you.
His long fangs hang over his lips, and a huge black cape sweeps out behind
him. "Welcome to my home. I hope you'll stay for...dinner," he croaks
out before he attacks!
The corpse of a Vampire is here.
% scream
You scream loudly!
% flee
You don't seem to be fighting anyone.
% l at vampire
You see nothing special.
% kill vampire
The corpse is already good and dead.
% get black cape from corpse
You don't see any black cape in the corpse of a Vampire.
% close coffin
You don't see anything by that name here.
% look
The Vampire's Lair
Finally you have reached the lowest level of the crypt. Before you is a
massive stone coffin, the lid slightly ajar. As you watch in horror, the lid
moves aside ever so slightly and a pale hand emerges! Moments later an
elaborately garbed man with incredibly pale skin is standing before you.
His long fangs hang over his lips, and a huge black cape sweeps out behind
him. "Welcome to my home. I hope you'll stay for...dinner," he croaks
out before he attacks!
The corpse of a Vampire is here.
% scratch
You scratch your head in puzzlement.
When I started to realize that it was all just text and very little actually
*did* anything, I was extremely disappointed. Rather than walking through an
interactive world, as I had been led to believe, I was actually walking between
props much like those fake buildings they used in the old Hollywood westerns.
And yes, one of the *first* things I implemented when I got a chance to code
was having the extra descriptions in the room respond to object manipulation
commands with generic messages other than "You don't see that here." Of
course, it's just as frustrating in the end to me. If you can't interact
with it, what's the point of it being there at all? As you say, Legend is
a special case, and does what it does very well. But I think that the
other extreme, the one that you refer to as "accepted wisdom", is rarely
done, and has never been done to the same extreme.
Adam W.
</PRE>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="01294" HREF="msg01294.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Raph & Kristen Koster <koster#eden,com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01292" HREF="msg01292.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>,
Orion Henry <a href="mailto:orionz#ix,netcom.com">orionz#ix,netcom.com</a>, Sun 27 Sep 1998, 00:23 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01294" HREF="msg01294.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>,
Raph & Kristen Koster <a href="mailto:koster#eden,com">koster#eden,com</a>, Sun 27 Sep 1998, 03:08 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01295" HREF="msg01295.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>,
Hal Black <a href="mailto:hal#moos,ml.org">hal#moos,ml.org</a>, Sun 27 Sep 1998, 03:57 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01301" HREF="msg01301.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>,
#Make Nylander <a href="mailto:thenewt#use,usit.net">thenewt#use,usit.net</a>, Sun 27 Sep 1998, 13:48 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01335" HREF="msg01335.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</a>, Mon 28 Sep 1998, 19:41 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01306" HREF="msg01306.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</a>, Sun 27 Sep 1998, 16:58 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01309" HREF="msg01309.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#kanga,nu">claw#kanga,nu</a>, Sun 27 Sep 1998, 17:58 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01282" HREF="msg01282.html">[MUD-Dev]</A></strong>,
apocalypse <a href="mailto:apocalypse#pipeline,com">apocalypse#pipeline,com</a>, Sat 26 Sep 1998, 21:30 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="01275" HREF="msg01275.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Unix is a mud (Re: Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?)</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Sat 26 Sep 1998, 20:17 GMT
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
</ul>
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