<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 -->
<!--X-Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list? -->
<!--X-From-R13: X Q Znjerapr <pynjNhaqre.rate.ftv.pbz> -->
<!--X-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:31:05 -0700 -->
<!--X-Message-Id: 199809232145.OAA01905#under,engr.sgi.com -->
<!--X-Content-Type: text/plain -->
<!--X-Reference: 19980923002008.63266#moos,ml.org -->
<!--X-Head-End-->
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>MUD-Dev message, [MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list?</title>
<!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" -->
<link rev="made" href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">
</head>
<body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff"
text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000">
<font size="+4" color="#804040">
<strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong>
</font>
<br>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
<br clear=all><hr>
<!--X-Body-Begin-->
<!--X-User-Header-->
<!--X-User-Header-End-->
<!--X-TopPNI-->
Date:
[ <a href="msg01164.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg01166.html">Next</a>
]
Thread:
[ <a href="msg01122.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg01169.html">Next</a>
]
Index:
[ <A HREF="author.html#01165">Author</A>
| <A HREF="#01165">Date</A>
| <A HREF="thread.html#01165">Thread</A>
]
<!--X-TopPNI-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-->
<!--X-Subject-Header-Begin-->
<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list?</H1>
<HR>
<!--X-Subject-Header-End-->
<!--X-Head-of-Message-->
<UL>
<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list? </LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: J C Lawrence <<A HREF="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:45:50 -0700</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
</UL>
<!--X-Head-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin-->
<HR>
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End-->
<!--X-Body-of-Message-->
<PRE>
On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 00:20:08 -0400
Hal Black<hal#moos,ml.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 22, 1998 at 02:31:19PM -0700, J C Lawrence wrote:
> I have an LP background.
Knowing a little of the background data of our subscriber list, the
membership appear to be almost evenly spread between the
DIKU/LP/Tiny-* camps. While I haven't done a breakdown against who
has posting authority, I wouldn't be surprised if the DIKU camp pips
ahead there as (and this is supported by Usenet) they appear to be
more vocal.
Note: I don't fall into the DIKU, LP, or the Tiny-* camps. If
anything, and this is equally misleading, I'm an Aber recluse.
> I think this issue ties in tightly with the education issue. If
> there is a means for people to read good, organized articles about
> the state of the art, as opposed to reading threads and trying to
> follow the issue, then I think this does a lot for bringing
> everyone up to speed (myself included). I would love to see
> something like a MUD 101 textbook (electronic, of course), which
> would be self-contained - given knowledge of procedural and
> object-oriented programming. I know it would certainly be a good
> resource for me.
There have been several thread summaries made by list members
(Marian, Lambert, etc) which have been posted to the list. I will
be getting these up on the web, but suitable archive searches may be
useful ITMT.
Other than that -- want to start writing such a 101 text?.
> One of the problems I have in following some of this list threads
> is that often discussions start in the middle. Someone has done
> some work on one of their pet projects, has encountered a
> stumbling block, and appeals to the list for help. Some very good
> technical discussion ensues. Doubtless many members of the list
> have gone through the same stages as the questioner, so they
> immediately know the context. However, I can see how a beginner
> such as myself would have trouble even understanding the question,
> or where to look to start learning about the topic.
I doubtless write for many when I reply, "Then ask!" Quite simply
we *need* people like yourself with fresh and unspoiled (unspoiled
by our jaded and all too heavily exercised history on the area)
viewpoints to examine and challenge our assumed orthodoxies. Even
more, _explaining_ the implicit assumptions and design criteria of
an area all too often points out its weaknesses and answers the very
question we started out asking.
MUD-Dev is not meant to be an ivory tower where only the gurus and
initiates discuss weighty matters in hushed tones of extreme
reverence. Be it research, educational, or whatever, this is a
working list not a self-adulating fan club. We do work here, we
create and solve problems We figure things out. We find out that
what we had figured was all wrong. We figure new things out and
them throw them up on the wall to see if they'll stick. We think of
new ideas and shoot old ideas down as we find faults with them. We
test ideas. We play devil's advocate. We make mistakes, even
really silly stupid and dumb mistakes, and we learn from them,
examine them, pick them over, and charge ahead to make hopefully new
and different mistakes which are usually the same old silly mistakes
in a new form (but that's part of the process too). And all along
through this madcap attack on the field, we try and keep looking
back to our roots, both so we don't miss anything, but also so we
don't miss _anybody_, for from the mouths of babes comes not only
spittle and puke (can you tell I've got young kids?), but incisive
insights and "dumb" questions we should have asked ourselves ages
ago. And also babes, or newbies if you wish, have a tendency of
growing up very fast and showing the old dogs new tricks, which is
something we all need. We all start somewhere. We were all helped
along the line somewhere.
> But, since JC has raised the issue, I will speak in favor of the
> value such a resource from a newbie's point of view.
I agree, it would be a wonderful thing. Care to write one?
> Another benefit I find is when someone says something succinctly
> or puts a label on something, which in turn brings together a lot
> of loose ideas that I had been thinking about previously into a
> coherent whole.
I'm sure Koster would appreciate assistance in collecting such
'laws' in cogent form.
> Anyway, there's my wish list and $0.02. 8')
Thanks!
--
J C Lawrence Internet: claw#null,net
(Contractor) Internet: coder#ibm,net
---------(*) Internet: claw#under,engr.sgi.com
...Honourary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...
</PRE>
<!--X-Body-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-End-->
<!--X-Follow-Ups-->
<HR>
<ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>:
<ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="01182" HREF="msg01182.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list?</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Hal Black <hal#moos,ml.org></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="01172" HREF="msg01172.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list?</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Caliban Tiresias Darklock <caliban#darklock,com></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="01169" HREF="msg01169.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list?</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> James Wilson <jwilson#rochester,rr.com></li></ul>
</UL></LI></UL>
<!--X-Follow-Ups-End-->
<!--X-References-->
<UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>:
<UL>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="01122" HREF="msg01122.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list?</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Hal Black <hal#moos,ml.org></LI></UL></LI>
</UL></LI></UL>
<!--X-References-End-->
<!--X-BotPNI-->
<UL>
<LI>Prev by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg01164.html">[MUD-Dev] ADMIN: Unsubscriptions</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg01166.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list?</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Prev by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg01122.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list?</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg01169.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list?</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Index(es):
<UL>
<LI><A HREF="index.html#01165"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI>
<LI><A HREF="thread.html#01165"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
<!--X-BotPNI-End-->
<!--X-User-Footer-->
<!--X-User-Footer-End-->
<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list?</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01105" HREF="msg01105.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list?</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Tue 22 Sep 1998, 22:48 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01115" HREF="msg01115.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list?</A></strong>,
Joel Kelso <a href="mailto:joel#ee,uwa.edu.au">joel#ee,uwa.edu.au</a>, Wed 23 Sep 1998, 01:44 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01116" HREF="msg01116.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list?</A></strong>,
Adam J. Thornton <a href="mailto:adam#phoenix,Princeton.EDU">adam#phoenix,Princeton.EDU</a>, Wed 23 Sep 1998, 02:14 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01122" HREF="msg01122.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list?</A></strong>,
Hal Black <a href="mailto:hal#moos,ml.org">hal#moos,ml.org</a>, Wed 23 Sep 1998, 03:59 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01165" HREF="msg01165.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list?</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Wed 23 Sep 1998, 22:31 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01169" HREF="msg01169.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list?</A></strong>,
James Wilson <a href="mailto:jwilson#rochester,rr.com">jwilson#rochester,rr.com</a>, Thu 24 Sep 1998, 00:15 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01193" HREF="msg01193.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list?</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Thu 24 Sep 1998, 17:57 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01172" HREF="msg01172.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list?</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Thu 24 Sep 1998, 00:41 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01174" HREF="msg01174.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: What are you looking for in this list?</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#kanga,nu">claw#kanga,nu</a>, Thu 24 Sep 1998, 02:22 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
</ul>
<hr>
<center>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
</center>
<hr>
</body>
</html>