<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 -->
<!--X-Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun -->
<!--X-From-R13: X Q Znjerapr <pynjNhaqre.rate.ftv.pbz> -->
<!--X-Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:44:55 -0700 -->
<!--X-Message-Id: 199809040144.SAA03983#under,engr.sgi.com -->
<!--X-Content-Type: text/plain -->
<!--X-Reference: 11A17AA2B9EAD111BCEA00A0C9B4179376077B#forest,origin.ea.com -->
<!--X-Head-End-->
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>MUD-Dev message, [MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</title>
<!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" -->
<link rev="made" href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">
</head>
<body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff"
text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000">
<font size="+4" color="#804040">
<strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong>
</font>
<br>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
<br clear=all><hr>
<!--X-Body-Begin-->
<!--X-User-Header-->
<!--X-User-Header-End-->
<!--X-TopPNI-->
Date:
[ <a href="msg00935.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg00937.html">Next</a>
]
Thread:
[ <a href="msg00446.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg00382.html">Next</a>
]
Index:
[ <A HREF="author.html#00936">Author</A>
| <A HREF="#00936">Date</A>
| <A HREF="thread.html#00936">Thread</A>
]
<!--X-TopPNI-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-->
<!--X-Subject-Header-Begin-->
<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</H1>
<HR>
<!--X-Subject-Header-End-->
<!--X-Head-of-Message-->
<UL>
<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun </LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: J C Lawrence <<A HREF="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:44:20 -0700</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
</UL>
<!--X-Head-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin-->
<HR>
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End-->
<!--X-Body-of-Message-->
<PRE>
On Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:26:08 -0500
Koster, Raph<rkoster#origin,ea.com> wrote:
> It's worth noting that as much as UO gets brought up as an example
> of the freewheeling highly dangerous game (and the "kitchen sink"
> too) its original intent was actually fairly easily summed up. We
> wanted to make an alternate world. A microcosm.
I'd suggest you also implicitly aped SX MUD's "Do what thou wilt",
which encouraged a very laissez faire, exploratory, frontier aspect.
> It's sort of bizarre for me now to see UO as such a touchstone on
> the list...
Its probably worth examining why:
1) UOL has a large active player base
2) UOL is well documented on the web etc.
3) UOL attempted a number of "experiments" which while not unusual
in MUDdom, had never successfully been applied to large sets of
onconstrained players, and not all at once.
4) We happen to have UOL insiders on the list.
The first three seem the real keys. Not only do we know what UOL is
attempting (even if few of us have ever even logged on (I haven't)),
but we have the hundreds upon hundreds of web pages and list posts by
players to stand testament to how UOL is functioning. Given #3 we get
to see not only the inside causes, design goals, and mechanics of an
item, but the views taken of it and its effects on the player
population.
Petri dish.
> (is this the longest thread in the list's history yet?),
It certainly is one that has caused me to double ckeck every time I
spell "killer" now.
> (It's also interesting to see the Usenet mud community somehow fail
> to notice UO is there).
Considering Usenet's signal ratio, its tacit derision of for-pay
games, the number of well ridden hobby horses, and the deeply
entrenched LP/Diku/etc franchises, this can't be too surprising.
> Yeah, it was designed as much MORE of a "sandbox" than many other
> muds, I suppose. But I am sure that there must be text muds out
> there with less controls on PK, in a far more gaming oriented
> environment. (Aren't there?)
Of a surety. However they don't have the player bases or the level of
documentation _by_the_players_ of wht's happening there.
A more interesting question is why M59, which does have the player
base and does have the online documentation, has rarely been
comparitively mentioned on the list, and almost never as a touchstone.
I'd suggest that #2 (level of experimentation) is/was lacking in M59.
--
J C Lawrence Internet: claw#null,net
(Contractor) Internet: coder#ibm,net
---------(*) Internet: claw#under,engr.sgi.com
...Honourary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...
</PRE>
<!--X-Body-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-End-->
<!--X-Follow-Ups-->
<HR>
<!--X-Follow-Ups-End-->
<!--X-References-->
<UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>:
<UL>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00380" HREF="msg00380.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Koster, Raph" <rkoster#origin,ea.com></LI></UL></LI>
</UL></LI></UL>
<!--X-References-End-->
<!--X-BotPNI-->
<UL>
<LI>Prev by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00935.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00937.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Prev by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00446.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00382.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Index(es):
<UL>
<LI><A HREF="index.html#00936"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI>
<LI><A HREF="thread.html#00936"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
<!--X-BotPNI-End-->
<!--X-User-Footer-->
<!--X-User-Footer-End-->
<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Milgram experiment (was Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun)</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00470" HREF="msg00470.html">[MUD-Dev] Milgram experiment (was Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun)</A></strong>,
Mike Sellers <a href="mailto:mike#bignetwork,com">mike#bignetwork,com</a>, Tue 04 Aug 1998, 02:13 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00935" HREF="msg00935.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Fri 04 Sep 1998, 01:25 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00380" HREF="msg00380.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Tue 28 Jul 1998, 00:30 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00446" HREF="msg00446.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Sat 01 Aug 1998, 21:56 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00936" HREF="msg00936.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Fri 04 Sep 1998, 01:44 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00382" HREF="msg00382.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Tue 28 Jul 1998, 02:10 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00384" HREF="msg00384.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Tue 28 Jul 1998, 03:04 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00386" HREF="msg00386.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Damion Schubert <a href="mailto:zjiria#texas,net">zjiria#texas,net</a>, Tue 28 Jul 1998, 03:26 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00387" HREF="msg00387.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Damion Schubert <a href="mailto:zjiria#texas,net">zjiria#texas,net</a>, Tue 28 Jul 1998, 03:40 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
</ul>
<hr>
<center>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
</center>
<hr>
</body>
</html>