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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: Mud Dev Mailing list <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Marian Griffith <<A HREF="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:10:09 +0100 (BST)</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On Fri 10 Jul, Jon A. Lambert wrote:
> On 9 Jul 98, Marian Griffith wrote:
> > On Wed 08 Jul, Jon A. Lambert wrote:
> I'm questioning the direct linkage between real violence and mud
> violence. How can one voluntarily and willingly participate in a
> game where violence is possible, while maintaining that there is
> such a link?
> I would maintain that willing participation in such a
> environment is tantamount to endorsing the position that violence
> does not occur in muds
Violence does not equate physical violence. It is the exertion of
power over somebody else.
> or that this "sort" of violence is quite different than real violence
Both are real, but one is physical and the other is not. The effect on
the victim from either can be profound.
> and is acceptable.
Being aware that something happens of course does not make it in any
form acceptable. I don't think there is need for counterexamples.
> In addition,
> acceptance of "violence" in such a context does not necessarily
> translate into the way one lives one's real life.
I doubt the victim cares in the least to be honest.
> There are two types of online mud games. Those which operate
> on the "principle of mutual consent" and those that do not.
> Violence can only occur in games that are operated under the
> principle of mutual consent. This violence is also limited to mental
> effects generated by the victim as a result of violation of this
> principle. Games that do not implement mutual consent, do not
> acknowledge their violence as real violence.
I do not think I entirely agree with this distinction though I admit
that I may well not understand what you are trying to express.
> I know of many mushes which implement character registration via
> e-mail. How often do idiots and bullies perform persistent repeat
> performances in such games?
Rare, unless they feel righteously compelled to punish other players
or the game staff for their wrongdoings. But nothing can deter those
people anyway.
Marian
--
Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
will there be loneliness ...
Rolan Choosing Talia,
Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey
</PRE>
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<li><strong><A NAME="00288" HREF="msg00288.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Travis Casey <efindel#polaris,net></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00286" HREF="msg00286.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> "Matthew R. Sheahan" <chaos#crystal,palace.net></li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00143" HREF="msg00143.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Jon A. Lambert" <jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00071" HREF="msg00071.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Wed 08 Jul 1998, 04:34 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00124" HREF="msg00124.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Thu 09 Jul 1998, 19:41 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00126" HREF="msg00126.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Holly Sommer <a href="mailto:hsommer#micro,ti.com">hsommer#micro,ti.com</a>, Thu 09 Jul 1998, 20:21 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00143" HREF="msg00143.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Fri 10 Jul 1998, 05:46 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00284" HREF="msg00284.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Tue 21 Jul 1998, 21:19 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00286" HREF="msg00286.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Matthew R. Sheahan <a href="mailto:chaos#crystal,palace.net">chaos#crystal,palace.net</a>, Tue 21 Jul 1998, 21:52 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00288" HREF="msg00288.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</a>, Tue 21 Jul 1998, 22:19 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00320" HREF="msg00320.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Thu 23 Jul 1998, 20:23 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00466" HREF="msg00466.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Mon 03 Aug 1998, 20:55 GMT
</LI>
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