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<H1>RE: [MUD-Dev] Planes of existance</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: RE: [MUD-Dev] Planes of existance</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Greg Munt" <<A HREF="mailto:greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk">greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Sat, 15 May 1999 20:48:43 +0100</LI>
<LI><em>Importance</em>: Normal</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu">mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
> >> [Quzah]
> >>
> >> While talking of death and what to do with folk when they
> >> expire, I thought of implementing planes of existance and
> >> thought some of you folk may like to kick the idea around
> >> a bit.
> >
> > [Greg Munt]
> >
> >Don't do this without thinking for a while. The above implies that not
> >having anywhere for dead players to 'go' is a problem.
>
> [Caliban]
>
> Dead PLAYERS?
>
> You have dead people playing your game? ;)
Without getting into the application of metaphors, I adore your
facetiousness. I'll have to ensure I distinguish players from characters,
from now on.
> >Don't even *think* about getting me
> >started on how instantaneous reincarnation can kill a well thought-out
> >world.
>
> Instantaneous reincarnation is Bad because it turns "death" into
> "teleport". As such, death is no longer as big a deal. Death needs to be a
> pain in the ass -- otherwise it's not so important to avoid it.
>
> Or at least that's how I see it. What's your perspective?
In the real world, death has a major impact on our activities. It (along
with pain) causes fear - and therefore power, to those dealing it out. Also,
people alter their behaviour, and do *anything they can* to avoid it. There
are few things more powerful than our fear of death - love being one of
them. I'm sure there are many more examples, but I'll just stick with these,
for now.
In mainstream muds, players do not care if they direct their characters into
situations where they may suffer. If someone threatens to kill a character's
mother, the player thinks, "What do I care?" If someone is torturing a
character, in order to get information that the player doesn't want
released, what does the player care if his character's testicles are doused
in a flammable liquid, then exposed to a naked flame? What does the player
care if his character is forced to watch his wife being raped? Who
remember's Infocom's "Floyd The Droid"? (I forget which game he was in.) I
remember being saddened when he 'died'. THAT is the kind of immersion that I
desire for my game. I want the *player* to be interacting with the world, as
well as their character.
Mainstream muds do not make death or pain worthy of player consideration. At
most, they have lost equipment, skills and/or experience points. So they
have to go through the hassle of getting them back, again. BIG DEAL. Risking
death is not risking your existence - its risking a minor loss, which you
can negate through extra effort. If death is no longer a big deal, behaviour
is no longer influenced. Suddenly, people can no longer rule by fear. What's
to fear? If she killed 100 characters, so what? Translate that into the real
world, and you get something entirely different.
> >I think you need to avoid thinking in terms of how to implement this
thing.
> >The first thing you need to do is to decide if your reason for wanting
> >multiple existence planes is a Good Thing(tm).
> >For example, 'because the players don't like having to start all over
again
> >when they die', 'it would be, like.. COOL, man' and 'it would be fun to
> >code' are all BAD reasons. (No, this *isn't* flamebait. Really! *koff*)
>
> I think the first one is a GOOD reason.
I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't thinking about the hassle of
generation a new character, when your previous one has died; I was thinking
about starting with no equipment, no skills, no experience.
But anyway, that is moot when your world rules support reincarnation at some
level. (In yours, intelligence, knowledge and experience is passed on, from
life to life.) The point that I was trying to make is that you shouldn't
degrade your game by removing something that your players don't like, simply
because the players don't like it.
_______________________________________________
MUD-Dev maillist - MUD-Dev#kanga,nu
<A HREF="http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev">http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev</A>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00251" HREF="msg00251.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Planes of existance</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Caliban Tiresias Darklock <caliban#darklock,com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] APE 0.2.1</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00229" HREF="msg00229.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] APE 0.2.1</A></strong>,
claw <a href="mailto:claw#kanga,nu">claw#kanga,nu</a>, Thu 13 May 1999, 06:25 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00198" HREF="msg00198.html">[MUD-Dev] Planes of existance</A></strong>,
Quzah [softhome] <a href="mailto:quzah#softhome,net">quzah#softhome,net</a>, Tue 11 May 1999, 20:23 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00230" HREF="msg00230.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Planes of existance</A></strong>,
Greg Munt <a href="mailto:greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk">greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk</a>, Fri 14 May 1999, 07:33 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00251" HREF="msg00251.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Planes of existance</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sat 15 May 1999, 09:33 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00263" HREF="msg00263.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Planes of existance</A></strong>,
Greg Munt <a href="mailto:greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk">greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk</a>, Sun 16 May 1999, 07:45 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00266" HREF="msg00266.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Planes of existance</A></strong>,
Ben Greear <a href="mailto:greear#cyberhighway,net">greear#cyberhighway,net</a>, Sun 16 May 1999, 07:50 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00271" HREF="msg00271.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Planes of existance</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sun 16 May 1999, 21:09 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00254" HREF="msg00254.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Planes of existance</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Sat 15 May 1999, 09:46 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00259" HREF="msg00259.html">[MUD-Dev] The distinction between magic spells and magic abilities</A></strong>,
Greg Munt <a href="mailto:greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk">greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk</a>, Sun 16 May 1999, 07:41 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
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