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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Gender and Mud Development</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Gender and Mud Development</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Jon A. Lambert" <<A HREF="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:01:00 -5</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On 8 Jun 99,, Caliban Tiresias Darklock wrote:
> On 05:01 PM 6/8/99 +00-05, I personally witnessed Jon A. Lambert jumping up
> to say:
> >
> >Consider briefly the recent threads on Achaea and Ultimate Universe. Are
> >these games that appeal to significant numbers women? Personally I think
> >not. So would you likely find lots of women involved in creating such a
> >game? Again, no, unless they were getting paid.
>
> This is a neat little vicious circle. As long as men design the games, they
> will appeal primarily to men. As long as they appeal primarily to men,
> women will not tend to get actively involved in designing them. Unless
> someone breaks this mold, it will just go on being like this.
It's more of a self-selective vicious circle. I think men can certainly
design games that appeal to women. But unless we have a sufficient
reason to do so, we'll design games that appeal to mostly ourselves, and
perhaps only by accident, chance or coincident preference hit upon the
features that have a more global appeal.
Now the demographics I'm shooting for are in the range of a 60/40 or
70/30 split between men/women. And I think this is pushing it. Why?
Well, as Katrina alluded to in another post, role-play in mixed groups is
very different. Personally, I think it is better. There's a whole
different level of civility, interaction and tension, than with an all-
male role-play group. I also think role-play in a mixed group,
particularly a lone female and the rest male tends to be much worse than
either. Males playing females just doesn't cut it either. As an avenue
for creative roleplay sure, but as a method to make up for the scarcity
of women in a game, it just doesn't hunt. And then there are age
demographics. I'd prefer not to have the under 18 crowd dominate the
mud. As a rule of thumb, I believe if you increase the numbers of 14-16
year old boys, you decrease the numbers of women. Perhaps it has
something to do with Bartle's clubs-hearts dynamics.
> Women as a cultural demographic tend to want very different things from
> games than men do. The terms "chick flick" and "guy movie" are
> representative: women tend to want interpersonal relation, character
> development, and intellectual stimulation. Guys, on the other hand, just
> wanna blow shit up.
Nod. Demographically that's true. Hollywood certainly understands its
audience most of the time and how to exploit it. But it's the games
thing that bothers me. Which is why I asked some time back, what games
do women enjoy? Ask a male which games they like to play and you will
likely get a vary specific detailed list. The "games" concept is almost
self-selectively male. _I_ think women play "games" mostly as an aside
or supplement to social interaction.
Here's a list of games/activities that I'd like to see implemented on a
mud:
Tag or Blind Man's bluff
Team Croquet
Karoake
Multi-player card games, like Hearts, Canasta, Bridge or Euchre
Baseball, Football or Cricket
Ballroom dancing
They needn't be known as the same thing, or exactly the same rules.
After all many of us like to stay within a theme. :)
--
--* Jon A. Lambert - TychoMUD Email:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com *--
--* Mud Server Developer's Page <<A HREF="http://pw1.netcom.com/~jlsysinc">http://pw1.netcom.com/~jlsysinc</A>> *--
--* To fight the empire is to be infected by its derangement. Whosoever *--
--* defeats part of the empire becomes the empire; it proliferates like a *--
--* a virus... thereby it becomes its enemies." -- P.K. Dick *--
_______________________________________________
MUD-Dev maillist - MUD-Dev#kanga,nu
<A HREF="http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev">http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev</A>
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<ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>:
<ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00656" HREF="msg00656.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Game construction and a big mistake</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Caliban Tiresias Darklock <caliban#darklock,com></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00651" HREF="msg00651.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gender and Mud Development</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Greg Miller <gmiller#classic-games,com></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00643" HREF="msg00643.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gender and Mud Development</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Matthew Mihaly <diablo#best,com></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00635" HREF="msg00635.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gender and Mud Development (back on topic, some)</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Katrina McClelan <kitkat#marcus,pants.nu></li></ul>
</UL></LI></UL>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00607" HREF="msg00607.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gender and Mud Development</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Jon A. Lambert" <jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com></LI></UL></LI>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00622" HREF="msg00622.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gender and Mud Development</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Caliban Tiresias Darklock <caliban#darklock,com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Gender and Mud Development</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00616" HREF="msg00616.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gender and Mud Development</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Tue 08 Jun 1999, 22:19 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00633" HREF="msg00633.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gender and Mud Development</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Wed 09 Jun 1999, 18:13 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00622" HREF="msg00622.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gender and Mud Development</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Wed 09 Jun 1999, 00:27 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00624" HREF="msg00624.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gender and Mud Development</A></strong>,
David Holz <a href="mailto:david#mf-net,com">david#mf-net,com</a>, Wed 09 Jun 1999, 00:53 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00631" HREF="msg00631.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gender and Mud Development</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Wed 09 Jun 1999, 17:02 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00635" HREF="msg00635.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gender and Mud Development (back on topic, some)</A></strong>,
Katrina McClelan <a href="mailto:kitkat#marcus,pants.nu">kitkat#marcus,pants.nu</a>, Wed 09 Jun 1999, 20:01 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00650" HREF="msg00650.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gender and Mud Development (back on topic, some)</A></strong>,
Greg Miller <a href="mailto:gmiller#classic-games,com">gmiller#classic-games,com</a>, Wed 09 Jun 1999, 23:28 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00660" HREF="msg00660.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gender and Mud Development (back on topic, some)</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#varesearch,com">claw#varesearch,com</a>, Thu 10 Jun 1999, 02:58 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00655" HREF="msg00655.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gender and Mud Development (back on topic, some)</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Thu 10 Jun 1999, 02:30 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
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