<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] Sockets --> <!--X-From-R13: Fenivf Qnfrl <rsvaqryNvb.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 14:07:27 -0700 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 11591.990516#io,com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 199905130824.DAA12953#laurel,actlab.utexas.edu --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, [MUD-Dev] Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:efindel#io,com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00268.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00270.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00257.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00054.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00269">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00269">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00269">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>[MUD-Dev] Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Travis Casey <<A HREF="mailto:efindel#io,com">efindel#io,com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Sun, 16 May 1999 14:11:11 -0400</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu">mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On Thursday, May 13, 1999, Cynbe ru Taren wrote: > We're swimming in hardware capacity these days -- the costs of PCs are > collapsing in large part because we finally do have more CPU oomph than > we know how to effectively apply, by and large. > IMHO, the low-level CPU efficiency differences between using multiple > threads blocking on sockets vs a single thread and select() are > entirely negligible at this point: Nobody is -ever- going to select > your design because you got that decision "right". > What matters a hell of a lot more is which choice will lead to the > most robust, understandable, maintainable, effective application. > We all learned to program when CPU bandwidth was much more expensive > than it is now: We're habituated to credit it with far more importance > than it now deserves. > The efficiency issues we should be worrying about now are efficient > use of programmer time, efficient use of end-user time, efficient > distribution of bugfixes and the like -- not efficient use of CPUs > which are anyhow 98% idle. I've personally got about (I've lost > count) 16 CPUs on the internet at the moment, any one of them probably > capable of carrying all of kernel.org's traffic, and I'd bet none of > them less than 98% idle as I type this. (Using no less then three of > those CPUs spread over two states to handle each character typed, but > who cares?) > Efficient use of today's CPUs means applying that 98% idle time to > do something useful for the user, not upping it to 99% idle time. It does depend a lot, though, on *what* you're doing. Network traffic doesn't tax modern CPUs much because it's IO-bound -- the network is, in most cases, slower than the CPU. However, that doesn't mean that there aren't situations where optimization can be important. I've seen real-time compression and decompression of audio and/or video take 50 to 90% of high-end CPUs, and I've seen high-traffic databases take 50+% of the CPU on high-end minicomputers (specifically, a system with 6 400 MHz Alpha CPUs). However, I'll readily agree that nothing that a typcial text-based mud does is very taxing in CPU terms. When I was reading the mud newsgroups, I used to be very amused at how, when people brought up the idea of writing a mud from scratch in C++, there were people on the Diku groups who would argue that C++ wasn't efficient enough to run a mud. Given that there are plenty of muds running on *interpreters*, I had to wonder how much efficiency they thought was needed... -- |\ _,,,---,,_ Travis S. Casey <efindel#io,com> ZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ No one agrees with me. Not even me. |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) _______________________________________________ MUD-Dev maillist - MUD-Dev#kanga,nu <A HREF="http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev">http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev</A> </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00245" HREF="msg00245.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Cynbe ru Taren <cynbe#muq,org></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00268.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00270.html">[MUD-Dev] Multi-threaded mud server.</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00257.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00054.html">[MUD-Dev] Virtual machine design</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00269"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00269"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>RE: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00253" HREF="msg00253.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sat 15 May 1999, 09:31 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00272" HREF="msg00272.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</A></strong>, Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#io,com">efindel#io,com</a>, Sun 16 May 1999, 21:10 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00293" HREF="msg00293.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</a>, Tue 18 May 1999, 06:37 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00257" HREF="msg00257.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</A></strong>, Mark Gritter <a href="mailto:mark#erdos,Stanford.EDU">mark#erdos,Stanford.EDU</a>, Sat 15 May 1999, 09:31 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00269" HREF="msg00269.html">[MUD-Dev] Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] Sockets</A></strong>, Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#io,com">efindel#io,com</a>, Sun 16 May 1999, 21:07 GMT </LI> </ul> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00054" HREF="msg00054.html">[MUD-Dev] Virtual machine design</A></strong>, Shane King <a href="mailto:thandor#donut,dhis.org">thandor#donut,dhis.org</a>, Fri 16 Apr 1999, 06:56 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00057" HREF="msg00057.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Virtual machine design</A></strong>, Ben Greear <a href="mailto:greear#cyberhighway,net">greear#cyberhighway,net</a>, Sat 17 Apr 1999, 04:43 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00059" HREF="msg00059.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Virtual machine design</A></strong>, Shane King <a href="mailto:thandor#donut,dhis.org">thandor#donut,dhis.org</a>, Sat 17 Apr 1999, 05:09 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00062" HREF="msg00062.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Virtual machine design</A></strong>, Ben Greear <a href="mailto:greear#cyberhighway,net">greear#cyberhighway,net</a>, Sat 17 Apr 1999, 16:33 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>