<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies --> <!--X-From-R13: Zvat <Y.Z.Zb-94Nfghqrag.yobeb.np.hx> --> <!--X-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 13:12:49 -0700 --> <!--X-Message-Id: Pine.SOL.3.96.990613201803.15305A-100000@sun-cc203 --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: Pine.BSF.4.10.9906091445370.25932-100000#shell9,ba.best.com --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00798.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00800.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00788.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00832.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00799">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00799">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00799">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Ling <<A HREF="mailto:K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk">K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:29:29 +0100 (BST)</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu">mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On Wed, 9 Jun 1999, Matthew Mihaly wrote: > > I'm not an economist by a long stretch, but I've been trying to puzzle > through some work that came out of the Santa Fe Institute in the late 80s > and 90s on complexity, specifically as applied to economics, done by guys > like Ken Arrow and Phil Anderson (both Nobel winners I believe). A lot of > it, especially, the mathematics, goes over my head, but what I gather is > that a real economic system cannot be properly modeled from the top down. > Further, the idea of there being one (or indeed, any) equilibrium point in > an economic system is bunk. It seems that the only way to model a real > economic system (which no one has really done convincingly yet on any > level as far as I can tell from the literature available), is to use > fairly sophisticated techniques that produce emergent behavior among > economic agents. It was sort of disheartening to read that, at least from > the context of a mud developer, as modeling a real economic system, > complete with positive feedback (which they have convincingly demonstrated > is a real part of the economy, despite the party line spouted off by > neo-classical economists), emergent structures, etc, is well beyond the > capability of any mud that I've ever heard of. We all try to model things > top-down, by providing pre-defined goals and methods for agents. Any > comments on this? The following link may prove enlightening (or not): <URL:<A HREF="http://www.newscientist.com/nsplus/insight/ai/forecast.html">http://www.newscientist.com/nsplus/insight/ai/forecast.html</A>> Skip the first ten odd paragraphs to get straight to the stock market simulator using moderately complex agents. It's even in simple English. Considering the simulation was conducted in 1987, I doubt the method described above is beyond most muds these days. PS: Do I append a copy of the text below? I've never worked out if I should. Besides, I think I'd infringe copyrights for this article. | Ling Lo _O_O_ kllo#iee,org _______________________________________________ MUD-Dev maillist - MUD-Dev#kanga,nu <A HREF="http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev">http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev</A> </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00832" HREF="msg00832.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Ling <K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00798.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] thoughts on game economies</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00800.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] thoughts on game economies</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00788.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00832.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00799"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00799"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>RE: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00723" HREF="msg00723.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</A></strong>, Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Thu 10 Jun 1999, 23:31 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00738" HREF="msg00738.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#varesearch,com">claw#varesearch,com</a>, Fri 11 Jun 1999, 03:17 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00749" HREF="msg00749.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</A></strong>, Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Fri 11 Jun 1999, 14:38 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00788" HREF="msg00788.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</A></strong>, Charles Hughes <a href="mailto:charles.hughes#bigfoot,com">charles.hughes#bigfoot,com</a>, Sat 12 Jun 1999, 02:38 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00799" HREF="msg00799.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</A></strong>, Ling <a href="mailto:K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk">K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk</a>, Sun 13 Jun 1999, 20:12 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00832" HREF="msg00832.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</A></strong>, Ling <a href="mailto:K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk">K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk</a>, Thu 17 Jun 1999, 15:39 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00857" HREF="msg00857.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</A></strong>, Mik Clarke <a href="mailto:mikclrk#ibm,net">mikclrk#ibm,net</a>, Fri 18 Jun 1999, 20:43 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00481" HREF="msg00481.html">[MUD-Dev] thoughts</A></strong>, Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Fri 04 Jun 1999, 15:40 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00486" HREF="msg00486.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] thoughts</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Fri 04 Jun 1999, 17:56 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>