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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies </LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: J C Lawrence <<A HREF="mailto:claw#varesearch,com">claw#varesearch,com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 20:13:04 -0700</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:57:11 -0700 (PDT)
Matthew Mihaly <diablo#best,com> wrote:
> I'm not an economist by a long stretch, but I've been trying to
> puzzle through some work that came out of the Santa Fe Institute
> in the late 80s and 90s on complexity, specifically as applied to
> economics, done by guys like Ken Arrow and Phil Anderson (both
> Nobel winners I believe).
I have a fair bit of respect for Arrow's mathematics (as applied to
economics) if not necessarily his conclusions. His math is
enlightening.
> A lot of it, especially, the mathematics, goes over my head, but
> what I gather is that a real economic system cannot be properly
> modeled from the top down.
Yup, as you say, emergent and complex systems.
> We all try to model things top-down, by providing pre-defined
> goals and methods for agents. Any comments on this?
Not quite all. My approach since day one has been to establish
small simple patterns, feedback loops basically, for various game
systems, and to then let those systems interact in variousl unstable
and interesting ways. I don't design the outcome of the interaction
or behaviour pattern before I start, mostly I just throw bits in and
wait until I hit something that is kinda interesting once its
running and which is state dependent on a reasonably large number of
external factors.
Good examples in the archives to look at enclude the Orc
breeder/fighter/noble/king scenario I referenced a few messages ago,
the Trash Collector/TC model that has been described several times,
the mobile migration model, the Princess/Orc interaction scenario
(mostly details simple interactions between two distinct feedback
loops), and the various mana flow discussions (mana particle
creation and attraction mechanics).
XScreenSaver has a module called "attraction". Run it. The
mechanics are extremely simple and quite obvious to the eye. Now
consider that eacy ball is in fact a system value or state in your
game and that your screen is a two-dimenional graph (with
appropriately valued axis for each ball). All of a sudden, with
very simple mechanics you have rather interesting behaviours for
little expense.
--
J C Lawrence Home: claw#kanga,nu
---------(*) Linux/IA64 - Work: claw#varesearch,com
... Beware of cromagnons wearing chewing gum and palm pilots ...
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<li><strong><A NAME="00669" HREF="msg00669.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Caliban Tiresias Darklock <caliban#darklock,com></li></ul>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>RE: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00699" HREF="msg00699.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</A></strong>,
Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt <a href="mailto:hhs#cbs,dtu.dk">hhs#cbs,dtu.dk</a>, Thu 10 Jun 1999, 15:26 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00696" HREF="msg00696.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</A></strong>,
Jo Dillon <a href="mailto:emily#thelonious,new.ox.ac.uk">emily#thelonious,new.ox.ac.uk</a>, Thu 10 Jun 1999, 15:27 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00831" HREF="msg00831.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</A></strong>,
Timothy O'Neill Dang <a href="mailto:timothy#nmia,com">timothy#nmia,com</a>, Thu 17 Jun 1999, 15:38 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00854" HREF="msg00854.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Fri 18 Jun 1999, 20:42 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
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</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00662" HREF="msg00662.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#varesearch,com">claw#varesearch,com</a>, Thu 10 Jun 1999, 03:13 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00669" HREF="msg00669.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Thu 10 Jun 1999, 03:55 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00681" HREF="msg00681.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Thu 10 Jun 1999, 06:14 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00684" HREF="msg00684.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Thu 10 Jun 1999, 07:09 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00732" HREF="msg00732.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Game Economies</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#varesearch,com">claw#varesearch,com</a>, Fri 11 Jun 1999, 02:29 GMT
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