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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Text Parsing</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Text Parsing</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Matthew Mihaly <<A HREF="mailto:sarapis#achaea,com">sarapis#achaea,com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 12:17:45 -0700</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu">mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
At 11:13 AM 6/7/99 -0500, Travis Casey wrote:
>On Fri, 4 Jun 1999, Albert wrote:
>
>> I believe the problem of newbies being confused as to what to do can be
>> easily remedied by giving them a thorough introduction, a specialized area
>> that allows a sort of interactive help system. And until they reach level 2
>> or so, periodically give them tips, pointers, and help key words.
We have a system like this. People log in and, after creating a character,
are presented with the option of taking an automated newbie-tour, which
takes about 40 minutes to an hour to go through. They are free to exit the
tour at any time, if they've gotten bored or what-not. The tour takes them
on four 'quests' (all of which you have to be pretty slow to screw up, as
most of the time you aren't allowed to move in directions it doesn't want
you to, etc), such as going on a dungeon adventure where you are attacked
by vicious goblins, and are rescued by a lovely Paladin, or finding some
mutton for a bartender who is quite hungry. At the end, they are able to
get information on guilds (joining them gains you a class), as well as join
a city if said newbie is so inclined.
>
>I agree, but I see a few possible sticking points:
>
>
> 2 - How do you make the newbies go through it? If you make it easy to
> exit the "newbie training" for the benefit of experienced players,
> some newbies will probably take that option as well. One could say,
> "Well, that's their problem" -- but if they then start annoying other
> players by asking lots of questions that would have been answered by
> the newbie materials, it becomes other people's problems as well.
So have a backup system then. We've got a newbie channel on which only
newbies, Gods, players who are approved as mentors, and Guides can speak.
Guides are two characters shared by experienced players who exist solely to
help newbies. We give them X number of credits for every hour that someone
plays a Guide.
>
> For this, I'd suggest making it easy to come back to the newbie
> materials at any time -- e.g., having a command that will put you
> back in them, integrating them into the regular help system, and
> having the newbie area be reenterable.
I'd also suggest having some sort of command that lets lost newbies easily
get back to the entrance to your newbie area.
>
> A parallel problem can be "helpful" players. The first time I
> mudded, someone offered to help me out. He teamed with me, led
> me around a bit (introducing me to the "follow" command along the
> way), gave me some armor and a weapon, and we went and fought some
> monsters. Unfortunately, he didn't tell me much of use, and I
> didn't learn anything about the layout of the mud or where safe
> areas for newbies who were mudding alone were. The next time I
> logged in, I found my way to the store where we'd bought my armor and
> weapon, bought the most expensive ones I could afford, wore them,
> and went out to the area we'd gone to together. Naturally, I got
> trashed there by myself.
This is a problem I agree, but with proper education of your existing
players, I don't think it is a major one. If you educate them as to how to
deal with newbies, I think you'll find they are capable of doing it
properly. If players are helping newbies, even incorrectly, then that's a
step in the right direction. It's a lot better than players telling newbies
to sod off.
> 3 - A common pitfall of newbie areas is that they're insulting. I recall
> one mud giving newbies a towel, a pot, and a spoon as starting armor
> and weapon. On another, I got to experience the "fun" of having my
> character be beaten up by squirrels, rabbits, etc.
>
> Even in D&D, in which characters are notorious for starting out weak,
> beginning characters can take on goblins, kobolds, giant rats, and
> other opponents that actually sound like they might be worth
> fighting. Who wants to get beaten up by squirrels?
Yeah, I agree, beating up squirrels and rabbits is boring. Our solution was
to put creatures that are perceived as legitimately weak in our newbie
areas, like pixies, kobolds, imps, hellcats, firesprites, etc.
>
> 4 - Determining when somebody isn't a newbie any more can be difficult.
> Do you do it by earned experience? If so, what happens if a
> "helpful" player helps a newbie get a lot of XP fast, as happened to
> me, but the newbie doesn't really learn much from it? By time on
> the mud? But what happens then if someone spends a lot of time
> wandering around and talking to people before really trying to
> adventure? Some combination or modification of these?
>
>I'm not ragging on the idea -- as I said, I think it's a good idea. Just
>pointing out some possible pitfalls in implementation.
That's a tough one, and we ended up arbitrarily defining newbies as
everyone under level 20. It's probably overkill, but this way at least we
know we're capturing nearly all the newbies.
I really think that there is no substitute for having humans there, ready
to help newbies. Everything else is good, but you're always going to have
some newbies, perhaps those who are first-timers (and those are the people
we want the most), who just need to have their hand-held and have their
questions patiently and respectfully answered.
--matt
_______________________________________________
MUD-Dev maillist - MUD-Dev#kanga,nu
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<li><strong><A NAME="00599" HREF="msg00599.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Text Parsing</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Greg Miller <gmiller#classic-games,com></li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00489" HREF="msg00489.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Text Parsing</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Albert <thecheezeman#earthlink,net></LI></UL></LI>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00570" HREF="msg00570.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Text Parsing</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Travis S. Casey" <efindel#io,com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Text Parsing</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00473" HREF="msg00473.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Text Parsing</A></strong>,
Ross Nicoll <a href="mailto:rnicoll#lostics,demon.co.uk">rnicoll#lostics,demon.co.uk</a>, Fri 04 Jun 1999, 03:43 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00489" HREF="msg00489.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Text Parsing</A></strong>,
Albert <a href="mailto:thecheezeman#earthlink,net">thecheezeman#earthlink,net</a>, Fri 04 Jun 1999, 18:43 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00570" HREF="msg00570.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Text Parsing</A></strong>,
Travis S. Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#io,com">efindel#io,com</a>, Mon 07 Jun 1999, 16:13 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00576" HREF="msg00576.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Text Parsing</A></strong>,
Albert <a href="mailto:thecheezeman#earthlink,net">thecheezeman#earthlink,net</a>, Mon 07 Jun 1999, 18:44 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00583" HREF="msg00583.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Text Parsing</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:sarapis#achaea,com">sarapis#achaea,com</a>, Mon 07 Jun 1999, 20:07 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00599" HREF="msg00599.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Text Parsing</A></strong>,
Greg Miller <a href="mailto:gmiller#classic-games,com">gmiller#classic-games,com</a>, Tue 08 Jun 1999, 14:53 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00612" HREF="msg00612.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Text Parsing</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Tue 08 Jun 1999, 22:17 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00642" HREF="msg00642.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Text Parsing</A></strong>,
Greg Miller <a href="mailto:gmiller#classic-games,com">gmiller#classic-games,com</a>, Wed 09 Jun 1999, 22:35 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00652" HREF="msg00652.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Text Parsing</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Thu 10 Jun 1999, 00:14 GMT
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