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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Role playing and Multiple Goals</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Role playing and Multiple Goals</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "John Bertoglio" <<A HREF="mailto:alexb#internetcds,com">alexb#internetcds,com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 01:41:57 -0700</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
I have been lurking for a few months. This working for a living is really
screwing up my personal life!
In any case, we have finished the initial phase of our legacy database
conversion and I am back to work on the Mud with the HTML browser as a
client using our new database technology (which is mega-cool).
Some comments from list members to create some context:
> Christopher Allen :
>
> How about if NPCs react differently to you if you only dress 'lower
class'?
> How about if eating good food not only makes you less hungry but also
earns
> you savoir faire? How about good clothes not wearing out as fast? There
> should be some fun ways to deal with some of these type of things if you
> think carefully about them.
> Adam Wiggins:
>
> Dunno about "Shadows", but a little shareware RPG I wrote many a moon
> ago had something I called "Spirit". I used this as a catch-all that
> covered food, sleep, and general morale. Eating improved spirit;
> eating a nice meal improved it much more. Sleeping improved spirit;
> sleeping in a nice inn improved it much more. Stay warm and it improves;
> wear a fancy, extremely comfortable cloak and it improves much more.
> Win a close battle and it improves. Loose a battle where you had the
> obvious advantage and it decreases. And, of course, it simply decreases
> over time.
There were several other interesting comments on the subject as well, but
the threads did not seem to go anywhere.
A number of threads have suggested that it is reasonable to broaden
character goals and enhance the function of various items in the system. I
would like to suggest that there is something interesting identified in the
above comments. Many RPG (both paper and computer) have attempted to
abstract elements like morale, class and spirit. These elements are lacking
on most Muds and presented only in a limited way when they are.
The power of a Mud running on a computer (as opposed to human game master)
is ability to store an almost limitless amount of data for each player. It
can also update that information with a degree of detail that would swamp a
face to face gaming session.
Here is my thesis:
Muds, in general, replicated (and in many cases, simplified) the action and
combat models from earlier RPG games. Because of this much of the richness
and depth which could make sophisticated text games stand out and compete
with graphical muds is missing.
Muds should store dozens of metrics related to character actions. These
metrics are checked and incremented/decremented when various actions are
performed. The best example I can think of at this time is Ultima IV from
Origin. Your avatar's actions were checked constantly. As the character's
virtures increased, certain actions and NPC responses became possible.
Because of the coding, a significant amount of "Role Playing" was required
to complete the game. While somewhat narrow in terms of choices (no "good
guy", no finish the game), you began to think, "What would my character do
in this situation?".
Role Playing is absent from many systems, often against the wishes and goals
of the system operators. Why is this? The answer typically given suggest a
defict in the personality, ethics or motivation on the part of the players.
If they were just "better" people, we would have the immersive, role playing
environment we seek. Rarely does anyone suggest that perhaps the problem is
the system lacks "Roles to Play".
And how do you create roles? One way is to create a granular set of metrics
that measure subtle actions and behaviors. Then alter the world so that
those metrics affect play in subtle and not-so-subtle ways. It is a
corporate maxim that "What gets measured, gets acted upon." If you don't
measure the result of role playing, there is no way to promote within the
game itself. Another way to say this is "Reward something and you will get
more of it.". Of course, the coralary is also true. Systems with active
online gamemasters will bestow boons upon individuals who are good
roleplayers, but this is not scaleable.
Essentially, recording "micro metrics" as a player goes through the world
provides the grist for a very creative kind of milling. It is interesting to
note that a well designed (IMHO) system, will record information about
players and their actions for which there is no current use. When players
attempt to do something, these metrics are checked and modify, eliminate or
guarantee the chance for success.
Example: Crafty Sam is hanging around the tavern trying to get the password
to the Thieves Guild in a bad part of town. He spots a table with some
likely looking gents and sits down. They have ignored him in the past and
asked him to leave. (If he refused, he found himself face down in the dirt
outside the tavern.) This time, one of the rogues looks him in the eye and
says, "My friend, this time you have gone to far. Your theft of the 'Black
Pearl' [from database: last item stolen from a Thieves Guild member: Black
Pearl] was too much. [translation: your 'Honor among thieves' metric has
become too negative]. You have two choices: run for the door and if you make
it leave this city forever [potential combat and 'kill on sight' flag set
for this city] or perform a little task for us. [Perform a quest and have
your honor counter reset]"
While Sam is a skilled thief [from numbers/value of successful steals], his
lack of care in choosing his victims has created a problem in his
advancement in his craft. In most systems, thieves steal from anyone. Bad
things happen when they get caught. Lets take the example further.
Sam decided the quest above was too difficult and made a run for it. In the
ensuing combat he gets badly chewed up, but manages to smash a "flash-bang"
potion and get away with his life. The thieves don't give chase [because
they "live" at the tavern and are essentially there as gatekeepers to
various thief infomation and to act as enforcers of "thief justice"] He
makes his way to a temple where the healer rejects him as a customer. [the
reason is that he has robbed to many of the faithful]. In desperation, he
tries another temple. The holy man there has the insight to see he is a
thief, but notes two things: he has never robbed one of his faithful and has
low scores for violent acts [perhaps all scores below a certain number].
This fact causes him to treat the thief for double the normal price.
Now, our player has two concerns which will affect how Sam behaves. First,
it would be good idea to stop breaking in to other thieves homes until he
can find a way to get in better with the Thieves Guild [negative 'Honor
among thieves' numbers slowly improve as Sam's deeds are forgotten]. Next,
he better make sure his victims are not members of the Church of Ra, or his
last available healer in this town will be gone. Also, his lack of violence
(which might be only because he didn't have the proper skills to be an
effective killer) might be a behavior he will continue.
So our thief, who had no real interest in role playing, now has a "Role". He
is a sneak thief who runs from confrontations and steals only from those who
do not worship Ra. He now must figure out how to find out people's religon.
Now he carefully examines potential victims and their homes for signs of
more than just wealth. Is it worth ripping off a house without knowing who
lives there? This kind of thing adds a level of richness that could become
very immersive.
> Adam Wiggins (again):
>
> Most of my mud characters "feast" on pipeweed bread and barrels of water
> taken from a public fountain. (The one exception being when I ran with
> the Tarsis Shriners, a clan on Arctic MUD who ate only Tarsis smoked hams.
> I was willing to pay a price premium for the hams in the name of clan
pride.)
This is a perfect example of a role playing behavior. Unfortunately, this
action has a high cost associated with it (other people get their food for
free, so by buying premium food you are at a dissadvantge). The only benefit
is the fun of supporting clan pride. So, how do you create a REAL (that is,
supported by in-game benefits) demand for Tarsis smoked hams?
Now, say the Tarsis smoked hams incremented the following metrics:
* Hunger. A basic game metric. Food is good. Factoring nutrional density
into a food's abilty to satisfy hunger could be important in making "richer"
foods valuable. A person with a belly full of ham might go longer in the
field without needing to eat again. This makes the quality foods more
valuable, but this can only take you so far.
* Prestige from what you eat. This metric would be increased by a much
higher amount by our ham than a regular food. In fact, the pipeweed bread
(sound awful) might even decrement your counter. The best restarunts (which
have no real meaning without the supporting metrics) might have trouble
finding a table for a person who is very deficient in this metric. Of
course, other metrics might compensate. Prestige from position, from
friends, from deeds, etc. could override a single low score. And only in the
fancy restaraunts can you try the foods which will increase your "prestige
from what you eat" beyond a certain point. That is, the hams can only take
you so far down the road to being recognized as a gourmet.
* Class status. Eating good food makes a small improvement in general class
status. Accumulating enough status increasing (or decreasing) actions could
result in the option to change your social class. This would have
significant in-game results. Becoming a minor noble might mean that you are
no longer welcome in places where you went to socialize (and increment
certain metrics that can only be done in that environment).
* Prestige from being a member of the clan. This would only be incremented
for Tarsis Shriners. It would slightly increase your status. Along with
other "clan approved" behaviors, it could lead to a position of power within
the clan and access to special perks. These metrics might be created along
with the clan.
* Girth. While I probably would not implement this, eating a lot of ham over
the daily requirements could lead to a weight problem. Now, a broad tummy
might be sign of prosperity that can have a suble positive effect on the
world, it would also have negative effects on certain physical activities.
Of course, it would also improve attacks where body mass is factored.
* And so on.
Now when Adam eats a ham, his role playing is rewarded by some subtle
benefits. Supplying Tarsis smoked hams suddenly becomes an enterprise worth
considering if the computer controlled source only produces a limited number
per game day.
What this model does is open up a world of sophisticated possiblites. Some
examples:
* Alter-egos. Mild mannered Don Diego by day cultivates his reputation as a
nice but inconsequential land owner. His player has chosen to supress the
visible combat and other skill metrics (which takes away their benefits) so
he does not attract attention. By night, he becomes Zorro who has a
completly different set of publicly visible metrics. The Zorro persona
strikes fear into the town guards and is beloved by the towns people
(because of his many acts of kindness). The Don Diego persona can earn money
and political power while Zorro cannot.
* Exposing imposters. Many systems allow a person to pretend to be another.
In a rich enviroment like I have described, you could test a player in many
ways by using your abilities to have "insight" into anothers subtle
characterists. If the person claiming to be the mayor has a profile that is
too far from what you know or suspect the real mayor's would be, they could
be challenged.
* Fashion and dress can become important. Aquiring the "right" clothes and
other items could be required to have access to various potential perks.
Being too well dressed or too poorly dressed for a function could cause you
problems. A feather in your hat might get you a free drink in one town and
an arrow in the back in another (because people with feathers have done bad
deeds in that town and the feather now has a very negative connotation.).
* Other stuff I havn't thought of.
Dealing with bots: The key to bots is to understand what you want to avoid.
If the goal is to stop cheating for ethical reasons, the design goals become
somewhat complex. My goal is simply to avoid having users hammer the server,
so my methods are tailored to that goal. The key here is to code the "Law of
Diminishing Returns" into the behavior checking algorithims. One method is
to just test for a flag value for a "desirable" change once each game day
and/or login. If it is thrown, increment the metric. This would work well
for metrics whose characteristics are generally positive. No matter how many
times you do something in a game day, you only get one tick. Things which
are generally bad can be incremented every time they are done. The ones in
the middle are somewhat more tricky. These can be handled by having a
maximum numbers of changes per game day.
The moral of the story is this: If the designers of a system can create
subtle and sophisticated roles with the game world, people will play them.
Reward role-playing and you will get more of it. Reward tank magery and you
will get a lot of that, instead. Use the technology of the text Mud to do
things that cannot be done any other way and text Muds will prosper as both
commercial and intellectual/creative enterprises.
jb
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</PRE>
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<UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>:
<UL>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00526" HREF="msg00526.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Parsing Text Output</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Chris Gray <cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00536" HREF="msg00536.html">[MUD-Dev] CVS repository for ScryMUD is online at scry.wanfear.com</A></strong>,
Ben Greear <a href="mailto:greear#cyberhighway,net">greear#cyberhighway,net</a>, Sat 05 Jun 1999, 20:00 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00530" HREF="msg00530.html">[MUD-Dev] Mihaly's Combat</A></strong>,
Greg Munt <a href="mailto:greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk">greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk</a>, Sat 05 Jun 1999, 13:43 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00550" HREF="msg00550.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Mihaly's Combat</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Sun 06 Jun 1999, 19:57 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00526" HREF="msg00526.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Parsing Text Output</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Sat 05 Jun 1999, 05:21 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00864" HREF="msg00864.html">[MUD-Dev] Role playing and Multiple Goals</A></strong>,
John Bertoglio <a href="mailto:alexb#internetcds,com">alexb#internetcds,com</a>, Sun 20 Jun 1999, 18:39 GMT
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</UL>
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<LI><strong><A NAME="00507" HREF="msg00507.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: MUD-Dev request rejected</A></strong>,
Greg Miller <a href="mailto:gmiller#classic-games,com">gmiller#classic-games,com</a>, Fri 04 Jun 1999, 22:45 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00505" HREF="msg00505.html">[MUD-Dev] Pay Muds & Free Muds - working together, or against each other?</A></strong>,
Greg Munt <a href="mailto:greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk">greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk</a>, Fri 04 Jun 1999, 22:38 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00510" HREF="msg00510.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Pay Muds & Free Muds - working together, or againsteach other?</A></strong>,
Ross Nicoll <a href="mailto:rnicoll#lostics,demon.co.uk">rnicoll#lostics,demon.co.uk</a>, Fri 04 Jun 1999, 23:04 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00513" HREF="msg00513.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Pay Muds & Free Muds - working together, or againsteach other?</A></strong>,
Greg Miller <a href="mailto:gmiller#classic-games,com">gmiller#classic-games,com</a>, Sat 05 Jun 1999, 01:28 GMT
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