<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: [MUD-Dev] On tanks... --> <!--X-From-R13: X Q Znjerapr <pynjNhaqre.rate.ftv.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 11:10:53 -0700 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 199805111808.LAA06501#under,engr.sgi.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, [MUD-Dev] On tanks...</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00500.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00502.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00504.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00535.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00501">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00501">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00501">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>[MUD-Dev] On tanks...</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] On tanks...</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: J C Lawrence <<A HREF="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Mon, 11 May 1998 11:08:39 -0700</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Sender</em>: "Petidomo List Agent -- Kanga.Nu version" <<A HREF="mailto:petidomo#kanga,nu">petidomo#kanga,nu</A>></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> There's the guts of several good games bured in there: <A HREF="http://dugite.ee.uwa.edu.au/~joel/shirow2.txt">http://dugite.ee.uwa.edu.au/~joel/shirow2.txt</A> Masamune Shirow on Tanks ...with a little help from Toren Smith. Around the world, most people associate tanks with the military. However, a vast range of police tanks are employed in Europe, Africa, Asia, and Central and South America. Even the famous Texas Rangers use armoured cars. I'm sure many readers have seen television footage of the armoured car (SWAT equipment) in action. When police arm themselves with such heavy weaponry, they usually plan to use it against the masses; its very appearance conjures images of civil unrest and political instability. I've seen shots of tanks crashing into an embassy to drive out terrorists but, to be frank, it struck me as a pretty reckless thing to do. Seen from that perspective, the world of Dominion must seem like an unsettling place, one where people live side-by-side with the fear of sudden death - a world much like Europe in the days of the Black Death. In such dark days, one can turn for hope only to the people themselves, warped by the age they live in, to be sure, but still trying to live their lives to the fullest... No, on second thought, maybe there's no hope even there. When you think about it, anyone who can walk around with a smile on their face in a place like that must be a little strange. The Tank Police in Dominion are basically a SWAT unit. They don't get involved in investigations. When possible, they make arrests, but by intent they are only called outfor situations in which persuasion or arrest by ordinary police is impossible. Their real work is to protect the populace and to "drive out crime". The reason they often seem so excessive is because I haven't portrayed the criminals they have to go up against. Criminals steal people's lives away with bullets, for their own casual convenience; they steal the savings others have painfully built for themselves over long years; to satisfy their own animal needs they will defile the families that are another man's greatest love. I suppose there's something to be said for depicting such villains, and getting the satisfaction of showing them being killed or otherwise getting their just desserts. I won't deny the validity of that basic plot (indeed, the writers of "cop shows" seem to specialise in little else), but I guess I'm just not that kind of guy. The Tank Police in Dominion are a little warped... the product of officialdom's paranoia, wrapped in an armour of hypocricy. If only a single "Bonaparte" were to be left on the face of a barren wasteland planet, that by itself would allow one to extrapolate much about what kind of civilisation had once ruled there before the Fall. People who know their tanks usually count Leonardo Da Vinci's armoured landship as the first of the breed, but the first tank used in combat was an armoured horse-drawn wagon employed during a Protestant rebellion in Bohemia. Apparently this tank closely resembled the Roman chariots made famous in the film Ben Hur. Though it was little more than an armour-plated farm wagon, its performance on the battlefield was spectacular. Tanks were also described in the works of Jules Verne and HG Wells, but the first modern tanks did not appear until 15th September 1916, when they joined the arsenals stalemated on the Western front in World War 1. Nowadays, war is no longer simply a killing affair; we rate weapons in terms of combat strength indicators, replacement costs and such. As a result, we civilians now have the good fortune of participating in the new, improved model of war. In an age of economic conflict and ultra direct trade - even of drug wars for some people - we are all participants in a global Cold War that sometimes drives people to their deaths without shedding a drop of blood. We have become combatants simply by virtue of being born. Yet it's fascinating that, in a world like this, the old principle of "sword and shield" remains as effective as ever. Speaking of swords and shields, it's time we address a subject that brings tears to the eyes of any true tank lover: the anti-tank missile. It's absolutely infuriating to think that one of those inexpensive little weapons can so easily turn a million-dollar tank into shredded scrap. Simply adding armour and increasing size until your tank is a virtual land-going battleship does not work. Hitler's experimental "Maus" tank, built in the closing days of WWII, proved that particular point. The Maus weighed 180 tons, towered six metres high and had frontal armour a foot thick. But it had a top speed of only 20kph (compared to the 80kph for a modern Abrams), and was so heavy that merely driving it down the street was enough to crush pavements and topple buildings. This monster was designed by none other than Herr Doktor Porsche. So instead we move to the opposite extreme, and produce the "mini-tank", able to use every building and wall in the city as extra armour. These are the tactics of the mini-tank, and they could have come straight from a SWAT handbook: o The minute you show yourself is the minute you get shot. o Always have someone covering you. o Move only when the enemy can't attack. o So long as your under fire, stay in the shelter of the closest bit of effective cover. That's the way the mini-tanks in Dominion are designed to fight. In fact, a kind of combat vehicle that springs from the same concept - the combination of a light vehicle and heavy firepower - is already in use today: put a missile launcher on a jeep, have it pop in and out like a gopher. And if it gets blown away, no big loss - it's cheap. I don't like bloodshed. With the incredible destructive capabilities of modern offensive weaponry, the best defence is never getting hit in the first place. If opponents are equipped with the same sensory array and the same range, then the smaller the tank, the harder it is to hit and the easier to conceal. In the final analysis, tanks overwhelm us with their sheer looks; the authority they bear is enough to tilt the balance of power all by itself. Tanks can easily become as symbol of mammoth power. Too cold to hate they crush the dreams of others, but rarely create their own. "If you think you can defeat me, just you go ahead and try, you pathetic fools! Nyahahahaha!!" Now that's the kind of nefarious foolishness that lies behind the real appeal of tanks. But day, when anti-tank helicopters are slaughtering the old kings of the battlefield at a kill rate of 16-to-1 or more, the laughs tend to ring a bit hollow... and we can take a more level-headed view. Mini-tank Bonaparte is a perfect example of a tank based on just such laughter. If power is the main text of armour, then laughter is the subtext, something I find easier to digest not being a tank fanatic myself... you might look at my affection for tanks in that way. I'm not just talking tanks. I'm fond of foolish inventions, of impenetrably complex machine built for unclear purposes, of intricate mechanisms, of infernal devices. As with mountain climbing, I find the route to the top at least as interesting as the final destination. Far more than birth or death I find the question of how to live, how to go on from here, to be the most interesting thing (although to be more precise we should say "how to age" instead of "how to live"). Personally, I prefer Da Vinci's unworkable airplane modelled on the wings of birds to some curvaceous flying machine that can only take wing with the help of some fussy scientific theory. Da Vinci's machine was more honest, and if I had to choose which of the two should be able to fly... well, Da Vinci's seems more human. Nor, for that matter, can I see anything to be gained from me turning into an "armoured fighting vehicle" kind of creator, armour-plated on the latest hot theories. Tanks are empty until a human climbs inside. That is both a limitation on them and an assurance of safety. It's astonishing to think that people were able to bring such a tool into existence, springing fulborn from their minds like Athena from the brow of Zeus. I just hope they won't be used in the future... [Blagged from some Manga Mania articles, and the Dominion trade paperback published by Dark Horse. Credits to Masamune Shirow, Toren Smith, Studio Proteus, Dark Horse, Manga Entertainment etc. - Matt] -- J C Lawrence Internet: claw#null,net (Contractor) Internet: coder#ibm,net ---------(*) Internet: claw#under,engr.sgi.com ...Honourary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith... -- MUD-Dev: Advancing an unrealised future. </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00535" HREF="msg00535.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: On tanks...</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Ling <K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00500.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: CGDC, a summary</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00502.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: How to handle log-outs in a totally dynamic world.</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00504.html">[MUD-Dev] More on LetsSystems</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00535.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: On tanks...</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00501"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00501"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: Attributes: Sanity</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00602" HREF="msg00602.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Attributes: Sanity</A></strong>, Travis S. Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#io,com">efindel#io,com</a>, Fri 15 May 1998, 13:25 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00603" HREF="msg00603.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Attributes: Sanity</A></strong>, Holly Sommer <a href="mailto:hsommer#micro,ti.com">hsommer#micro,ti.com</a>, Fri 15 May 1998, 13:49 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00605" HREF="msg00605.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Attributes: Sanity</A></strong>, Holly Sommer <a href="mailto:hsommer#micro,ti.com">hsommer#micro,ti.com</a>, Fri 15 May 1998, 14:56 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </ul> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00504" HREF="msg00504.html">[MUD-Dev] More on LetsSystems</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Mon 11 May 1998, 19:56 GMT <LI><strong><A NAME="00501" HREF="msg00501.html">[MUD-Dev] On tanks...</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Mon 11 May 1998, 18:10 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00535" HREF="msg00535.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: On tanks...</A></strong>, Ling <a href="mailto:K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk">K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk</a>, Wed 13 May 1998, 09:46 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00496" HREF="msg00496.html">[MUD-Dev] RE: CGDC, a summary</A></strong>, Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Mon 11 May 1998, 15:17 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00497" HREF="msg00497.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: CGDC, a summary</A></strong>, Holly Sommer <a href="mailto:hsommer#micro,ti.com">hsommer#micro,ti.com</a>, Mon 11 May 1998, 16:02 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00500" HREF="msg00500.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: CGDC, a summary</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Mon 11 May 1998, 17:02 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>