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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: "'<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>'" <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: <A HREF="mailto:s001gmu#nova,wright.edu">s001gmu#nova,wright.edu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:38:42 -0400 (EDT)</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
Original messages reformatted to fit 80 columns
On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Koster, Raph wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Maddy [SMTP:maddy#fysh,org]
> > Sent: Friday, June 26, 1998 5:31 AM
> > To: mud-dev#kanga,nu
> > Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun
> >
> > On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Marian Griffith wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue 23 Jun, Mike Sellers wrote:
> >
> > > True that you can not (entirely) force people to play nice by
> > > making it impossible to be anything else. However providing
> > > mechanisms for other players to deal with the social misfits 'on
> > > their own terms' plays right into their hands. You made the game
> > > which was intented a nice roleplay environment into something that
> > > fits the killers. Even players who don't want to fight others are
> > > forced to, because that is the only way there is for them to
> > > protect themselves. So in a sense the killers have won.
> >
> Very nice analysis. Of course, the alternative is for the game to play
> the cop, which is actually rather hard to pull off.
>
> > Why do these mechanisms have to require the players to even lift a
> > sword?
> >
> Swords (in-game real ones or metaphorical ones like character deletion,
> banning, stat loss, etc etc) tend to be the only thing killers will
> listen to. Either the game wields it in code, the admins wield it, or
> players wield it. And Mike is quite right that if the players wield it,
> it will be other killers mostly who take up the challenge.
The problem is not limited to in game behavior. When you come down to it,
a disturbingly large poortion of society follows the rules because of the
imminent threat of violence that the law enforcement officers represent.
It's no coincidence that Cops tend to be larger people... they have to be
in better physical shape to handle the application of brute force for
those people who see fit to ignore the threat, or at least call the Cops
bluff. When you build a simulation that parallel's reality in a lot of
ways, it's not really suprising that the get similar behavior from people.
Maybe it's a simptom of the game being too much simulation, and not enuf
game? or maybe it's just 'cause most of the population is just not very
civilized... or that they are willing to set that aside from time to time.
-Greg
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="01214" HREF="msg01214.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Koster, Raph" <rkoster#origin,ea.com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01260" HREF="msg01260.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Tue 30 Jun 1998, 02:05 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01261" HREF="msg01261.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Richard Woolcock <a href="mailto:KaVir#dial,pipex.com">KaVir#dial,pipex.com</a>, Tue 30 Jun 1998, 02:25 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01213" HREF="msg01213.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Maddy <a href="mailto:maddy#fysh,org">maddy#fysh,org</a>, Fri 26 Jun 1998, 10:31 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01214" HREF="msg01214.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Fri 26 Jun 1998, 14:39 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01218" HREF="msg01218.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
s001gmu <a href="mailto:s001gmu#nova,wright.edu">s001gmu#nova,wright.edu</a>, Fri 26 Jun 1998, 18:39 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01219" HREF="msg01219.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Fri 26 Jun 1998, 18:42 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01220" HREF="msg01220.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Fri 26 Jun 1998, 19:02 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01223" HREF="msg01223.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Dr. Cat <a href="mailto:cat#bga,com">cat#bga,com</a>, Fri 26 Jun 1998, 21:31 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01228" HREF="msg01228.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Mike Sellers <a href="mailto:mike#bignetwork,com">mike#bignetwork,com</a>, Sat 27 Jun 1998, 01:10 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
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