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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: "'<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>'" <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Koster, Raph" <<A HREF="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:00:19 -0500</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marian Griffith [SMTP:gryphon#iaehv,nl]
> Sent: Friday, June 26, 1998 2:22 PM
> To: 'mud-dev#kanga,nu'
> Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun
>
> On Fri 26 Jun, Koster, Raph wrote:
>
>
> > Either the game wields it in code, the admins wield it, or
> > players wield it. And Mike is quite right that if the players wield
> it,
> > it will be other killers mostly who take up the challenge.
>
> Well, actually it was me who wrote it, but that's ok ;)
>
Whoops--sorry for the misattribution!
> I guess it is slightly better than the thing I read in a player's
> diary
> of his early experiences. (I paraphrase) Ultima is ruled by an
> atmosphere
> of fear. People are afraid to stop and talk, for fear of being
> attacked.
> I suppose the new system is a step in the right direction. I could
> only
> wish that it weren't necessary to create vigilante players.
>
It IS better. But the thing that I keep in mind is that the original
lofty, hopeless vision was of a setup where we handed the players their
own destinies, allowed them to determine the policing, the course of
events, the societal pressures. And that's a vision that is very popular
*even among our players who saw the hideous aftermath.* We all talk even
on this list about things like this, and the sad realization I came to
is that players aren't ready for it any more than they are in the real
world (how many are actively involved in their local government in real
life?)
> > Basically, I was all for the vision you described, Maddy, until I
> > actually made a game that supports it. Then I found it was mosly a
> > mirage. :(
>
> This is one of the saddest facts I have read about the possibility
> (and
> future) of true roleplaying games. I think I am going to cry a bit.
>
I think a true roleplaying game can survive and thrive--as long as it is
small. But to grow beyond a very elite audience, it will have to accept
the fact that it will need to direct players very firmly along
predetermined ethical lines, it will have to shoulder much of the burden
of organization on either the code or admin side, and it will have to
sacrifice that sense of complete freedom. A large-scale pure roleplay
game would basically have to be a fascist state. :(
-Raph
</PRE>
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<li><strong><A NAME="01223" HREF="msg01223.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> "Dr. Cat" <cat#bga,com></li></ul>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01213" HREF="msg01213.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Maddy <a href="mailto:maddy#fysh,org">maddy#fysh,org</a>, Fri 26 Jun 1998, 10:31 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01214" HREF="msg01214.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Fri 26 Jun 1998, 14:39 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01218" HREF="msg01218.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
s001gmu <a href="mailto:s001gmu#nova,wright.edu">s001gmu#nova,wright.edu</a>, Fri 26 Jun 1998, 18:39 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01219" HREF="msg01219.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Fri 26 Jun 1998, 18:42 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01220" HREF="msg01220.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Fri 26 Jun 1998, 19:02 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01223" HREF="msg01223.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Dr. Cat <a href="mailto:cat#bga,com">cat#bga,com</a>, Fri 26 Jun 1998, 21:31 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01228" HREF="msg01228.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Mike Sellers <a href="mailto:mike#bignetwork,com">mike#bignetwork,com</a>, Sat 27 Jun 1998, 01:10 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01234" HREF="msg01234.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Sat 27 Jun 1998, 17:29 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01239" HREF="msg01239.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>,
Maddy <a href="mailto:maddy#fysh,org">maddy#fysh,org</a>, Mon 29 Jun 1998, 12:00 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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