<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: Leaving characters in play --> <!--X-From-R13: "Xbua Pregbtyvb" <nyrkoNvagreargpqf.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 23:42:38 -0700 --> <!--X-Message-Id: E0ybg6R-0000Ie-00#mail,kanga.nu --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, [MUD-Dev] Re: Leaving characters in play</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:alexb#internetcds,com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00690.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00692.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00838.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00712.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00691">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00691">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00691">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: Leaving characters in play</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: Leaving characters in play</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: "John Bertoglio" <<A HREF="mailto:alexb#internetcds,com">alexb#internetcds,com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Mon, 18 May 1998 23:44:23 -0700</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Sender</em>: "Petidomo List Agent -- Kanga.Nu version" <<A HREF="mailto:petidomo#kanga,nu">petidomo#kanga,nu</A>></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> From: Adam Wiggins <adam#angel,com> To: mud-dev#kanga,nu <mud-dev#kanga,nu> Date: Monday, May 18, 1998 1:06 PM >On Sun, 17 May 1998, Travis S. Casey wrote: >> On Saturday, 16 May 98, John Bertoglio <alexb#internetcds,com> wrote: >> > Now when our system is finished, I guarantee that no player will score a >> > one hit kill on another player...but that is a different story. >> >> Never? Why not? It certainly isn't realistic not to allow one-hit >> kills under any circumstances, and the more powerful the weapons in >> your game become, the less realistic it becomes. Ok, I made an overstatement. First, the low probability is only valid for fully healed, rested individuals who are significantly lower in skill than their opponent. We will carefully manipulate luck to give the weaker player a fighting chance. Usually, the stronger player will win, all other things being equal. But the agressor will feel some fear during the combat. PK will not be spell, spell, spell, you're dead. In our world, a one-shot PK will be such a rare event that even the killed individual will be proud to brag about it. (A arrow to the eye is a pretty spectacular shot, after all.) >> If, for example, >> your game includes shotguns, grenades, and other such weapons, such a >> rule starts to look silly. If you go on into the kinds of >> superweapons available in some SF, it becomes downright ridiculous. I would love to be able to model worlds outside of swords and sorcery. The problem is that those worlds lend themselves so well to this kind of gaming. The problem with warfare after the age of massed muskets (a better inflection point would be the Boar War in South Africa), combat became so deadly that most kills were made by people who never saw their opponents (artillery). While effective, the advanced weapons make the actions of small units and heros somewhat irrevelant. Notice that most games that model the modern era do so on a larger scale than the solo hero or party of 6. The ones that do (X-Com and BattleTech comes to mind) do so by essentially modeling medieval combat by introducing powerful armour which can absorb large amount of damage. This gives players the time to get to know their heros before they are killed and replaced. Note the world of Dune. Advance technology virtually neutralizes high-tech weapons so small scale combat is fought with psionics, bladed weapons and poisons. I would guess that Herbert did this to introduce the notions of personal honor and combat into a highly advanced empire. You are right of course about the flaw in my argument. BTW, a Wizardry Tiltowait makes most super weapons seem feeble in comparison...but even such a spell would probably fail to do you (totally) in if I poach the next idea: >Perhaps players get a certain amount of 'luck' each day. A one-hit >killing blow can be avoided if you have enough luck. >Thus: > >% throw grenade Boffo >You lob a grenade at Boffo. >It explodes. >% >Boffo comes crawling out of the cloud of dust, coughing and sputtering, >singed but otherwise unharmed. >Boffo says, "Woah, that was close! I think I'm going to stay home for the >rest of today, I've just about used all the good luck I'm entitled to for >one day." > >This is a nice was to help encourage players to explore. If they walk in >on the mighty dragon once, they will get a good scare. If they walk in >again, they get roasted. Sometime you borrow good ideas, sometime you steal great ones. This one falls into the later category. A vague concern was what happens if four obnoxious newbies start harassing a more senior player. The jerks would actually have a good chance of whomping the senior player (who is in my model, a valued customer). The newbies would know (there are no secrets in online worlds with a player base of any size) that if he initiates combat, they will have an excellent chance of taking him on. So instead of complaining to the Admins, the senior player tells the newbies..."Do you feel lucky, punks." "If I fail to killl to you think your luck will hold out with my guildmates over there?" Packs of jackels can kill lions, but don't try it very often because of the risk. Still, it must keep the big cats from feeling too cool (except that they are cats and, therefore, immune from all behavior which can vaguely be considered positive). Thanks, Adam >Adam > > John Bertoglio >-- >MUD-Dev: Advancing an unrealised future. > -- MUD-Dev: Advancing an unrealised future. </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00712" HREF="msg00712.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Leaving characters in play</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Ling <K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00690.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Bad Game Designer, No Twinkie! -- By Ernest Adams</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00692.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Bad Game Designer, No Twinkie! -- By Ernest Adams</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00838.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Leaving characters in play</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00712.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Leaving characters in play</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00691"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00691"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: Leaving characters in play</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00650" HREF="msg00650.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Leaving characters in play</A></strong>, Travis S. Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#io,com">efindel#io,com</a>, Sun 17 May 1998, 21:15 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00717" HREF="msg00717.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Leaving characters in play</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Tue 19 May 1998, 21:08 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00719" HREF="msg00719.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Leaving characters in play</A></strong>, D. B. Brown <a href="mailto:dbrown1#stny,lrun.com">dbrown1#stny,lrun.com</a>, Tue 19 May 1998, 22:04 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00838" HREF="msg00838.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Leaving characters in play</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</a>, Tue 26 May 1998, 22:56 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00691" HREF="msg00691.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Leaving characters in play</A></strong>, John Bertoglio <a href="mailto:alexb#internetcds,com">alexb#internetcds,com</a>, Tue 19 May 1998, 06:42 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00712" HREF="msg00712.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Leaving characters in play</A></strong>, Ling <a href="mailto:K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk">K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk</a>, Tue 19 May 1998, 19:46 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00842" HREF="msg00842.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Leaving characters in play</A></strong>, Travis S. Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#io,com">efindel#io,com</a>, Wed 27 May 1998, 12:43 GMT </LI> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00525" HREF="msg00525.html">[MUD-Dev] Leaving characters in play</A></strong>, Joel Kelso <a href="mailto:joel#ee,uwa.edu.au">joel#ee,uwa.edu.au</a>, Wed 13 May 1998, 00:49 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00527" HREF="msg00527.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Leaving characters in play</A></strong>, Ben Greear <a href="mailto:greear#cyberhighway,net">greear#cyberhighway,net</a>, Wed 13 May 1998, 03:01 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>